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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7792284" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>Sure I'll stick to epic tier. Let's look at the DC for a low epic character</p><p></p><p>Easy: 19 Mod: 26 Hard: 35</p><p></p><p>That same 4th level character can achieve the easy difficulty with a roll of 7, a roll of 14 for moderate and could probably hit hard with the help of magic...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Top Epic</p><p></p><p>Easy: 24 Mod: 32 Hard: 42</p><p></p><p>That same 4th level character can achieve the easy difficulty with a roll of 12, a roll of 20 for moderate (probably easier when everything available to a 4e character is factored in) and could possibly hit hard with the help of magic (Not certain about this but then this is the same effect the DC 30 in 5e creates)...</p><p></p><p>I think my general point still stands... these are supposed to be the feats of near gods and a 4th level character can accomplish them if given the chance to roll.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok I apologize for my poor choice of words but let me make my point clear... there is no hard separation mathematically between the tasks a heroic tier character could achieve in the game and what an epic character could achieve ( except possibly at the most extreme end, and I believe even that is attainable if everything available to a 4e character is factored in).</p><p></p><p>My larger point is that I understand 4e tied certain fiction description, tropes, etc. to certain DC's... but it is only through the hand of the DM gating DC's that said fictional differences are mathematically maintained. This can be accomplished in 5e (or not if one chooses to disregard the possibility of gating DC checks) as well (and I gave examples of how earlier). The main difference I see in the two editions is that 4e has more tightly bound it's game to a specific genre with specific tropes but gives more robust advice and direction around gating (thus the claims of it feeling more restrictive and narrow)... while 5e leaves it pretty much open giving one the tools and a minimum of advice around genres and leaving it up to the individual DM to decide how said tools can be used to create said genre (thus the claims of it not being precise enough or too open in it's resolution for some).</p><p></p><p>EDIT: Just thought about it the other big difference is that 4e has DC's that are subjective (what a Hard DC is numerically changes depending on level) while 5e has objective DC's (what a hard DC is, 20 stays the same number no matter what level...though the actual check to make the DC's in both games are still subject to DM determination on appropriateness, DM set modifiers, DM set adv/disadv, and so on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 7792284, member: 48965"] Sure I'll stick to epic tier. Let's look at the DC for a low epic character Easy: 19 Mod: 26 Hard: 35 That same 4th level character can achieve the easy difficulty with a roll of 7, a roll of 14 for moderate and could probably hit hard with the help of magic... Top Epic Easy: 24 Mod: 32 Hard: 42 That same 4th level character can achieve the easy difficulty with a roll of 12, a roll of 20 for moderate (probably easier when everything available to a 4e character is factored in) and could possibly hit hard with the help of magic (Not certain about this but then this is the same effect the DC 30 in 5e creates)... I think my general point still stands... these are supposed to be the feats of near gods and a 4th level character can accomplish them if given the chance to roll. Ok I apologize for my poor choice of words but let me make my point clear... there is no hard separation mathematically between the tasks a heroic tier character could achieve in the game and what an epic character could achieve ( except possibly at the most extreme end, and I believe even that is attainable if everything available to a 4e character is factored in). My larger point is that I understand 4e tied certain fiction description, tropes, etc. to certain DC's... but it is only through the hand of the DM gating DC's that said fictional differences are mathematically maintained. This can be accomplished in 5e (or not if one chooses to disregard the possibility of gating DC checks) as well (and I gave examples of how earlier). The main difference I see in the two editions is that 4e has more tightly bound it's game to a specific genre with specific tropes but gives more robust advice and direction around gating (thus the claims of it feeling more restrictive and narrow)... while 5e leaves it pretty much open giving one the tools and a minimum of advice around genres and leaving it up to the individual DM to decide how said tools can be used to create said genre (thus the claims of it not being precise enough or too open in it's resolution for some). EDIT: Just thought about it the other big difference is that 4e has DC's that are subjective (what a Hard DC is numerically changes depending on level) while 5e has objective DC's (what a hard DC is, 20 stays the same number no matter what level...though the actual check to make the DC's in both games are still subject to DM determination on appropriateness, DM set modifiers, DM set adv/disadv, and so on. [/QUOTE]
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Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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