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Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7800131" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>4e doesn't cap out the game system at level 30, just PCs levels. There are level 35 monsters, for instance (they are all Gods or Primordials, but they exist). So it is quite possible to generate level 35 DCs, that would be considered a maximum challenge DC for a level 30 PC by DMG guidelines. Going by RC pp 126 and extrapolating the table to 35 (the RC table stops at 30) The highest DC in 4e is a 46. Even if you stop at 30 it is a 42. This means that 'god-like' feats of skill are entirely outside the realm of heroic, or even pretty much paragon tier characters. An extreme level 20 PC (paragon capstone) might hit some of these DCs with very high rolls. That seems pretty appropriate to me.</p><p>I think the tier system itself also provides a strong basis for expectations in terms of 'color' when it comes to these sorts of tasks. Epic is clearly different from Paragon is clearly different from Heroic. 5e is a lot 'fuzzier' in that sense, and IME DMs don't seem to do a lot of re-imagining the scale of things at high levels. It just isn't clear to them at what point the game naturally transitions to a different 'mode of play'. AD&D was a bit stronger in this regard, there was a 'name level' transition. It wasn't hard and fast like in 4e, but it was definitely there (PCs getting followers and bases of operations was a big thing). Still, 4e is really the only system where things can very naturally 'go gonzo' and it is pretty clear where and how to manage that transition (though the lack of an Epic DMG is unhelpful here).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7800131, member: 82106"] 4e doesn't cap out the game system at level 30, just PCs levels. There are level 35 monsters, for instance (they are all Gods or Primordials, but they exist). So it is quite possible to generate level 35 DCs, that would be considered a maximum challenge DC for a level 30 PC by DMG guidelines. Going by RC pp 126 and extrapolating the table to 35 (the RC table stops at 30) The highest DC in 4e is a 46. Even if you stop at 30 it is a 42. This means that 'god-like' feats of skill are entirely outside the realm of heroic, or even pretty much paragon tier characters. An extreme level 20 PC (paragon capstone) might hit some of these DCs with very high rolls. That seems pretty appropriate to me. I think the tier system itself also provides a strong basis for expectations in terms of 'color' when it comes to these sorts of tasks. Epic is clearly different from Paragon is clearly different from Heroic. 5e is a lot 'fuzzier' in that sense, and IME DMs don't seem to do a lot of re-imagining the scale of things at high levels. It just isn't clear to them at what point the game naturally transitions to a different 'mode of play'. AD&D was a bit stronger in this regard, there was a 'name level' transition. It wasn't hard and fast like in 4e, but it was definitely there (PCs getting followers and bases of operations was a big thing). Still, 4e is really the only system where things can very naturally 'go gonzo' and it is pretty clear where and how to manage that transition (though the lack of an Epic DMG is unhelpful here). [/QUOTE]
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