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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 7800532" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>I have never really seen a game like it. While it does share some features with Third Edition including lacking the long list of features that Fifth Edition took from Fourth Edition from what I have seen it plays nothing like Third Edition. It takes the mechanical rigor and design language of Fourth Edition with a dash of the design language of Apocalypse World and brings in detailed traps and exploration rules that really remind me of B/X. The GMing ethos strongly reminds me of a combination of Moldvay and Apocalypse World. Where GM judgement is called for they explicitly state it.</p><p></p><p>Thematically it really reminds me of Berserk! It presents a fairly brutal world with a combat system to match. PCs and Monsters are built off the same number base with a level 1 Creature largely having the same number of hit points and damage potential as a PC. Monster design is a combination of Fourth Edition, Third Edition and B/X. Monsters all have unique abilities, some combat, some non-combat. They also have immunities, weaknesses, and resistances that must either be exploited or gotten through. Many monsters have long lasting afflictions like poisons, diseases, and curses. Some monsters like the hydra even have special ways they need to be killed. In the case of the hydra its heads must be cut off and cauterized.</p><p></p><p>Hit points are explicitly meat. Many monsters will disembowel you, gore you, and do all kinds of nasty stuff to you. There is powerful mundane healing, but it comes from the Medicine skill. Basically characters will be undergoing surgery on a regular basis.</p><p></p><p>So operational play is still a really big deal. Encumbrance is really focused on with an abstract Bulk system. They have added consumables for martial characters that must be affixed to your weapon or armor before use. You probably will want to carry multiple weapons to deal with different creatures. Spell casters use real Vancian magic and have had their slots cut down severely so every spell is precious. They do have at will cantrips and focus spells that are a combination daily/encounter spell.</p><p></p><p>However decisions you make on the encounter level are also critical to success. Largely you need to be good at both to do well. The action economy is something that both martial characters and casters must manage to excel. For a caster that means spending actions to sustain powerful spells as well as casting spells some with variable effects depending on the actions you take. Often timing is critical for casters. Mistiming a powerful spell can be a real judgement error. Martial characters must manage movement, special actions, and their reactions to be effective. You can be bad at playing a fighter.</p><p></p><p>I'm not certain how uptake will go. I am very excited about the game, particularly for the embrace of B/X style exploration and GMing ethos. I do not think it will meaningfully play like Fourth Edition. I guess I will find out tomorrow when I play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 7800532, member: 16586"] I have never really seen a game like it. While it does share some features with Third Edition including lacking the long list of features that Fifth Edition took from Fourth Edition from what I have seen it plays nothing like Third Edition. It takes the mechanical rigor and design language of Fourth Edition with a dash of the design language of Apocalypse World and brings in detailed traps and exploration rules that really remind me of B/X. The GMing ethos strongly reminds me of a combination of Moldvay and Apocalypse World. Where GM judgement is called for they explicitly state it. Thematically it really reminds me of Berserk! It presents a fairly brutal world with a combat system to match. PCs and Monsters are built off the same number base with a level 1 Creature largely having the same number of hit points and damage potential as a PC. Monster design is a combination of Fourth Edition, Third Edition and B/X. Monsters all have unique abilities, some combat, some non-combat. They also have immunities, weaknesses, and resistances that must either be exploited or gotten through. Many monsters have long lasting afflictions like poisons, diseases, and curses. Some monsters like the hydra even have special ways they need to be killed. In the case of the hydra its heads must be cut off and cauterized. Hit points are explicitly meat. Many monsters will disembowel you, gore you, and do all kinds of nasty stuff to you. There is powerful mundane healing, but it comes from the Medicine skill. Basically characters will be undergoing surgery on a regular basis. So operational play is still a really big deal. Encumbrance is really focused on with an abstract Bulk system. They have added consumables for martial characters that must be affixed to your weapon or armor before use. You probably will want to carry multiple weapons to deal with different creatures. Spell casters use real Vancian magic and have had their slots cut down severely so every spell is precious. They do have at will cantrips and focus spells that are a combination daily/encounter spell. However decisions you make on the encounter level are also critical to success. Largely you need to be good at both to do well. The action economy is something that both martial characters and casters must manage to excel. For a caster that means spending actions to sustain powerful spells as well as casting spells some with variable effects depending on the actions you take. Often timing is critical for casters. Mistiming a powerful spell can be a real judgement error. Martial characters must manage movement, special actions, and their reactions to be effective. You can be bad at playing a fighter. I'm not certain how uptake will go. I am very excited about the game, particularly for the embrace of B/X style exploration and GMing ethos. I do not think it will meaningfully play like Fourth Edition. I guess I will find out tomorrow when I play. [/QUOTE]
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