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<blockquote data-quote="Urriak Uruk" data-source="post: 8423162" data-attributes="member: 7015558">Sorry mate, I just disagree. I find it strange that the &quot;space&quot; in-between crystal spheres should be considered part of the Material Plane, when it is filled with totally unreal monstrosities like beholders and mind flayers. The phlogiston to me is a clunky mess, and its important pieces are derivative to the Astral to me.The biggest lore point I find that makes me want to ditch the phlogiston, is the Githyanki. They are perhaps the most iconic planar travelers, with a history of invading/raiding multiple worlds on the Material Plane. But their home is on the Astral Plane. So the idea that the Astral is this really spiritual place doesn't hold up when a very NOT spiritual and instead very influential on the Material and beyond use it as their base of operations.Just my opinion of course, and I doubt I've convinced you. But I don't think removing phlogiston really decreases the richness when you can integrate its best bits to the Astral while ditching the clunky stuff... it makes it all more cohesive to me, and more likely for folks to actually use and integrate into their games.I mean, the number of posters I've seen here that did ditch the phlogiston for exactly this reason seems to prove at least part of the community feels it's an unnecessary part of the lore.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Urriak Uruk, post: 8423162, member: 7015558"] Sorry mate, I just disagree. I find it strange that the "space" in-between crystal spheres should be considered part of the Material Plane, when it is filled with totally unreal monstrosities like beholders and mind flayers. The phlogiston to me is a clunky mess, and its important pieces are derivative to the Astral to me. The biggest lore point I find that makes me want to ditch the phlogiston, is the Githyanki. They are perhaps the most iconic planar travelers, with a history of invading/raiding multiple worlds on the Material Plane. But their home is on the Astral Plane. So the idea that the Astral is this really spiritual place doesn't hold up when a very NOT spiritual and instead very influential on the Material and beyond use it as their base of operations. Just my opinion of course, and I doubt I've convinced you. But I don't think removing phlogiston really decreases the richness when you can integrate its best bits to the Astral while ditching the clunky stuff... it makes it all more cohesive to me, and more likely for folks to actually use and integrate into their games. I mean, the number of posters I've seen here that did ditch the phlogiston for exactly this reason seems to prove at least part of the community feels it's an unnecessary part of the lore. [/QUOTE]

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