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<blockquote data-quote="Old Gumphrey" data-source="post: 1619323" data-attributes="member: 12872">How's that any different from a wizard? Does that mean the wizard is weak too?What the heck does that have to do with anything? Counterspelling, maybe? If he had fireball he could counter it, or if he had any evocation spells of 3rd level or higher and Improved Counterspell he could counter it.Not a feature of the sorcerer, as this applies to wizards as well. Sorcerers are allowed to use scrolls, so their limited selection doesn't really apply if they plan ahead.Yes, I believe it is correct. Care to back up your stance with anything tangible other than &quot;nu-uh&quot;? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> The only thing I've seen them used for effectively is grappling mages to death and making all their saving throws as they do. They have good AC (with really high ability scores) and in games I've played in I find them getting scraped off of the ground more than any other class. The rogue and bard ranks up there as well in the dying factor but they add a host of great benefits to any party. Monks can basically wrestle weak opponents and really, aside from the low will save, a barbarian can do a much better job of smashing mages in a grapple.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Old Gumphrey, post: 1619323, member: 12872"] How's that any different from a wizard? Does that mean the wizard is weak too? What the heck does that have to do with anything? Counterspelling, maybe? If he had fireball he could counter it, or if he had any evocation spells of 3rd level or higher and Improved Counterspell he could counter it. Not a feature of the sorcerer, as this applies to wizards as well. Sorcerers are allowed to use scrolls, so their limited selection doesn't really apply if they plan ahead. Yes, I believe it is correct. Care to back up your stance with anything tangible other than "nu-uh"? :) The only thing I've seen them used for effectively is grappling mages to death and making all their saving throws as they do. They have good AC (with [b]really high[/b] ability scores) and in games I've played in I find them getting scraped off of the ground more than any other class. The rogue and bard ranks up there as well in the dying factor but they add a host of great benefits to any party. Monks can basically wrestle weak opponents and really, aside from the low will save, a barbarian can do a much better job of smashing mages in a grapple. [/QUOTE]

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