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<blockquote data-quote="Kalendraf" data-source="post: 1623727" data-attributes="member: 3433">I think you should have included a smiley there...or were you serious?Nearly everyone I game with fits under the experienced category, at least I think they do.&nbsp; Most of them have been playing since 2e, with a few since 1e days.&nbsp; Since moving to 3e/3.5, I've been involved in 4 long-running campaigns including a monthly campaign which switched over from 2e and is still running now going on 5 years.&nbsp; My weekly campaign recently celebrated its 1-year anniversay.&nbsp; The other 2 campaigns lasted 6 months, and the other nearly 2 years.&nbsp; In addition to those, I've been involved in several 1-shot adventures.&nbsp; I would consider that to mean that my players and I are rather experienced.&nbsp; None would be classified as weak.&nbsp; In fact, I would call several of them strong players.&nbsp; Some could be called less experienced I guess, but only if you compare them to folks playing since the mid-70's.I've played several classes, but I mostly DM, so I usually get the luxury of seeing how all the other classes stack up from the opposite side of the DM screen.&nbsp; We've had every class show up in varying degrees.&nbsp; The one class that has struggled badly in nearly every campaign has been the rogue.&nbsp; The campaigns have ranged from combat-light/rp-heavy to combat-heavy/rp-light styles, and each time it was typically the rogue that was the 1st to die.&nbsp; It didn't matter which player ran them.&nbsp; Rogues simply died, probably 3 to 4 times more often than any other class.&nbsp; No other class had this same degree of difficulty, not even the d4 spellcasters or the &quot;supposedly&quot; wimpy bards.&nbsp; I've mentioned in early posts what I think is wrong with the rogue, so I won't repeat it here.&nbsp; My entire reason for this post is to show you that the reason for failure isn't due to lack of experience or weakness on the player's part.&nbsp; In my book, when even strong players can't keep a rogue alive, that's a clear indication of a weak class.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kalendraf, post: 1623727, member: 3433"] I think you should have included a smiley there...or were you serious? Nearly everyone I game with fits under the experienced category, at least I think they do. Most of them have been playing since 2e, with a few since 1e days. Since moving to 3e/3.5, I've been involved in 4 long-running campaigns including a monthly campaign which switched over from 2e and is still running now going on 5 years. My weekly campaign recently celebrated its 1-year anniversay. The other 2 campaigns lasted 6 months, and the other nearly 2 years. In addition to those, I've been involved in several 1-shot adventures. I would consider that to mean that my players and I are rather experienced. None would be classified as weak. In fact, I would call several of them strong players. Some could be called less experienced I guess, but only if you compare them to folks playing since the mid-70's. I've played several classes, but I mostly DM, so I usually get the luxury of seeing how all the other classes stack up from the opposite side of the DM screen. We've had every class show up in varying degrees. The one class that has struggled badly in nearly every campaign has been the rogue. The campaigns have ranged from combat-light/rp-heavy to combat-heavy/rp-light styles, and each time it was typically the rogue that was the 1st to die. It didn't matter which player ran them. Rogues simply died, probably 3 to 4 times more often than any other class. No other class had this same degree of difficulty, not even the d4 spellcasters or the "supposedly" wimpy bards. I've mentioned in early posts what I think is wrong with the rogue, so I won't repeat it here. My entire reason for this post is to show you that the reason for failure isn't due to lack of experience or weakness on the player's part. In my book, when even strong players can't keep a rogue alive, that's a clear indication of a weak class. [/QUOTE]

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