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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1471496" data-attributes="member: 3146">None of those seem particularly abusive to me.Disintegrate is a 6th level spell capable of doing 40d6 to a single target.Sure there's a save but it's in the same ballpark (and isn't shut down by energy resistance or the resist energy spell).Sure, you can make Scorching Ray 8th level. Maximize, Empower, and Enlarge it for somewhere around 93 points of damage against a single target halfway between short and medium range. Of course, you could also use Polar Ray for quite a bit of damage (an average of 55 or so--more at higher levels) at longer range. And Polar Ray isn't shut down by energy resistances or Resist Energy to nearly the same extent. (Not to mention, it's a rather weak spell for 8th level). At 9th level, Scorching Ray could be Energy Admixed and Maximized for 144 points of damage. On the other hand, Meteor swarm does 84 points of damage or so with no save and then a similar amount of area effect damage with a save. Total (assuming the save is failed) 168 points of damage or so to one target plus damage to other targets in the area. And, of course, the meta-magicked scorching rays are stopped by minor globes of invulnerability, etc.It's a nifty spell and it's worth using nearly all the meta-magic feats on but it doen't blow good high level spells out of the water. That's much better than the situation where metamagicked spells are worse than other spells of their level. If the meta-magicked spells aren't good choices at their effective levels, there's no reason to spend feats on meta-magic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 1471496, member: 3146"] None of those seem particularly abusive to me. Disintegrate is a 6th level spell capable of doing 40d6 to a single target. Sure there's a save but it's in the same ballpark (and isn't shut down by energy resistance or the resist energy spell). Sure, you can make Scorching Ray 8th level. Maximize, Empower, and Enlarge it for somewhere around 93 points of damage against a single target halfway between short and medium range. Of course, you could also use Polar Ray for quite a bit of damage (an average of 55 or so--more at higher levels) at longer range. And Polar Ray isn't shut down by energy resistances or Resist Energy to nearly the same extent. (Not to mention, it's a rather weak spell for 8th level). At 9th level, Scorching Ray could be Energy Admixed and Maximized for 144 points of damage. On the other hand, Meteor swarm does 84 points of damage or so with no save and then a similar amount of area effect damage with a save. Total (assuming the save is failed) 168 points of damage or so to one target plus damage to other targets in the area. And, of course, the meta-magicked scorching rays are stopped by minor globes of invulnerability, etc. It's a nifty spell and it's worth using nearly all the meta-magic feats on but it doen't blow good high level spells out of the water. That's much better than the situation where metamagicked spells are worse than other spells of their level. If the meta-magicked spells aren't good choices at their effective levels, there's no reason to spend feats on meta-magic. [/QUOTE]

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