Which 4E Mechanics doesn't fit pre-Spellplague FR?

[questing gm]

If I was planning to run 4E during the pre-Spellplague era of FR, which 4E mechanic would have trouble fitting into the realmslore of the time?

The only one that I could think up so far is how magic works which is drastically different mechanically but could be explained differently flavor-wise. Is the Weave so intrinsic to Vancian magic that having spellcasters do otherwise would lead into a unworkable plot hole?

The real problem that I forsee is explaining rituals which previous editions didn't have and why the Weave requires certain spells to be performed in longer durations.

Other than that though, is there anything else that the 4E mechanics just would never fit into pre-Spellplague even with a twisted interpretation of the realmslore?

 

[Derulbaskul]

It will be difficult to recapture the flavour of a lot of pre-4E magic items if they played (or play) a large part in your campaign.

Also, I would be inclined to ditch eladrin (except as star elves) and stat up the various elven races as unique variations on the standard PHB elf. I would probably, in due course, do the same with the halfling races and possibly also the dwarves.

What do you plan to do with the Shadow Weave? if you keep it will you go with something simple (eg: +5 on Arcana check DCs to detect, no spells with the radiant keyword, +2 to attack rolls [and ritual skill checks?] for spells with certain keywords [charm, necrotic, psychic], half-damage to spells with certain keywords [fire, lightning]) or something more complicated?

As for rituals, I think I would just treat them as always working that way. A horrible retcon, I know, but the easiest solution in so many ways.

I'm keen to see your ideas so I hope you will keep posting.

 

[questing gm]

Also, I would be inclined to ditch eladrin (except as star elves) and stat up the various elven races as unique variations on the standard PHB elf. I would probably, in due course, do the same with the halfling races and possibly also the dwarves.

I think Eladrin fits the bill of being a Sun Elf so a simple rename could work for me. My initial plan was to only use the races available in the 4E core rulebooks and not introduce any 'sub-races' but I think they could be done with simple modifications to their racial ability bonus.

What do you plan to do with the Shadow Weave? if you keep it will you go with something simple (eg: +5 on Arcana check DCs to detect, no spells with the radiant keyword, +2 to attack rolls [and ritual skill checks?] for spells with certain keywords [charm, necrotic, psychic], half-damage to spells with certain keywords [fire, lightning]) or something more complicated?

A simple explanation could be that the new Shadow power source is powered by the Shadow Weave? The Dark Pact warlock from the 4E FR Player's Guide can also be used to explain a Shadow Weave spellcaster since they do have to make a pact with Shar in order to use it IIRC.

I'm keen to see your ideas so I hope you will keep posting.

I shall as I see more posters bring up their ideas. I think it should be an interesting discussion.

 

[JoeGKushner]

A lot of it is going to depend on your group.

Is your group there to enjoy the pre-Spellplauge 4e with all of the mechanics associated with it, or the setting of pre-Spellplague 4e.

How much experience does your group with with FR?

I ran a few small adventurers till the party hit about 3rd and have been running Spire and the party is about 2/3rds of the way through.

All set in the FR.

No problems so far and we've had Dragonborn and Eladrin.

 

[keterys]

Honestly, I don't think you'd have to change anything.

Of course, this from someone who ran Dragonlance in Mutants and Masterminds for a bit and thought it worked well. Others may be more purist.

 

[questing gm]

A lot of it is going to depend on your group.

Is your group there to enjoy the pre-Spellplauge 4e with all of the mechanics associated with it, or the setting of pre-Spellplague 4e.

How much experience does your group with with FR?

My players enjoy 4E very much and I prefer the setting during pre-Spellplague, so I wanted to try and get the best of both worlds.

In terms of experience, my players aren't very well versed in the setting but I try to be as consistent as I can with realmslore of that era.

 

[JoeGKushner]

My players enjoy 4E very much and I prefer the setting during pre-Spellplague, so I wanted to try and get the best of both worlds.

In terms of experience, my players aren't very well versed in the setting but I try to be as consistent as I can with realmslore of that era.

Then it probably won't matter. I've been able to use several groups out of the various books and describe what they're known for without the players worrying about the mechanics involved.

For example, a lot of random encounters in the North are with the orcs that make up the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Sure, the 'kingdom' is officially at peace but hey, the orc king can't control all of those orcs! And then again, the party has fought eladrin racist who feel that humans are a blight on the land. I forget the actual name of them (Champions of Darkness I think?) but they're a nice touch when trying to show that the world is filled with points of darkness and that the players need to watch out for everything and can't assume that just because it's a surface elf or a dwarf, etc..., that they don't have to take proper precautions.

There are so many organizaitons, etc... in the setting that you should be able to bring in a lot of material and 4e monster design is such a snap that it shouldn't be too difficult to utilize them in 4e without having to go throug the horror of adding class levels, templates, etc... to the monsters.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

I changed my long-running FR Moonsea campaign from 3.5 to 4th immediately without changing a thing. The only problem so far is that the group doesn´t like the Greenwood-esque magic items i convert from 2e to 4e (from sources like The Magister, Dragon etc.) because they can´t easily add them to the char in the builder.

Then it probably won't matter. I've been able to use several groups out of the various books and describe what they're known for without the players worrying about the mechanics involved.

For example, a lot of random encounters in the North are with the orcs that make up the Kingdom of Many Arrows. Sure, the 'kingdom' is officially at peace but hey, the orc king can't control all of those orcs! And then again, the party has fought eladrin racist who feel that humans are a blight on the land. I forget the actual name of them (Champions of Darkness I think?) but they're a nice touch when trying to show that the world is filled with points of darkness and that the players need to watch out for everything and can't assume that just because it's a surface elf or a dwarf, etc..., that they don't have to take proper precautions.

There are so many organizaitons, etc... in the setting that you should be able to bring in a lot of material and 4e monster design is such a snap that it shouldn't be too difficult to utilize them in 4e without having to go throug the horror of adding class levels, templates, etc... to the monsters.

Lets quote the Wiki on that:

"The Eldreth Veluuthra (Victorious Blade of the People, also sometimes Eldreth Veluuthara), formed in 262 DR and still active as of 1374 DR, was a group of elves dedicated to the removal of all humans from Faerûn. Its main areas of activity were ancient elven forests, including the Ardeep Forest, the Border Forest, the Chondalwood, Cormanthor, the High Forest, the Moonwood, Neverwinter Woods and the Winterwood."

 

[questing gm]

Nice to see that it has been done before and I'm believing that pre-Spellplague FR might be enhanced with the 4E mechanics.

 

[CapnZapp]

I believe the answer is either "none of them" or "all of them".

I see no reason why you can't run a game in the 3E version of FR but with 4E rules. What you don't do is try to explain how things work one way now, but another way before - simply retcon things to "always have worked" the 4E way.

It follows that I strongly advice you NOT to convert an existing campaign. 4E is much more than any previous new edition its own game, and I strongly suggest you start a fresh campaign with no baggage in the form of specific 3E abilities that need explaining/converting. As long as that isn't an issue, basing that new 4E campaign in the 3E Realms won't be a problem!

On the other hand, if you are looking forward to specific mechanisms and rules interactions, you really should use the 3E rules. Here using 4E will only cause you grief.