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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9597484" data-attributes="member: 6750235">A human warlock with the charlatan (or custom) background on a point buy can go 8 STR, 16 DEX, 16 CON, 8 INT, 8 WIS, and 16 CHA then pick up magic initiate from the bonus feat but we're getting rather specific at this point, and 3 dump stats is not what I would consider typical.They need to take the three +1 option.In doing so the 1 hp from slightly better CON and slightly better concentration save isn't going to make much of a difference.No one builds for 1st level, lol.  That does demonstrate the two 16's and a 14 I was going with, though. ;-)They need a 13 to hit AC 17 and 14 to hit AC 18 so that is 1 out of 3 attacks hitting outside of the 1 free shield spell.Earlier you were arguing that temp hp were renewable on short rests because of pact magic so I would point out it's impossible to replace thp without taking hits.I think we play a full game session before advancing to level 2, to answer the question though.I mentioned the shield spell only lasting one round repeatedly and pointed out that one spell slot can be spent on either shield or armor of agathys but not both.  And you were already arguing thp from armor of agathys so that spell slot goes to armor of agathys.Poisoned from the auasit is going to provide the same benefit as sap from weapon masteries so that's not an advantage.Scared from the quasit is a single target once per day with a 10 DC so might work 50% of the time on a goblin minion with the chance going down as WIS goes up or proficiency exists.  The possibility of not being approached by one target if the quasit is in the way when that target can still attack via ranged weapons doesn't make the warlock more durable.A +2 saving throw bonus against a DC 10 check is 35% chance to fail, about 1 in 3 as stated.  The 13 or 14 to hit is 32.5% chance to hit, about 1 in 3 as stated.  The actual hit rate is slightly more than 1 in 9 and the one free shield spell still leaves it at around 1 in 10 hits dropping blade ward.The XP budget for a 1st level character in an easy encounter is 50 xp.  This would be 2 giant crabs, for example.  It takes 6 of those encounters to reach 2nd level.  Each encounter lasts long enough for the warlock or fighter to kill 3 13 hp monsters and each monster gets to attack.  It takes a d8 weapon +3 ability mod an average of 2 hits to drop each giant crab.  Each crab has an AC of 15 and the fighter or warlock with +5 to hit would take about 4 attacks to do this.  If you're attacking at 1 attack per round that's a lot of rounds and incoming attacks.  That would be over 40 attacks to level up coming in.Rats, or bandits, or cultists would be a lot less and easier to kill.  Bandits are also CR 1/8 (25xp ea) with 12 AC and 11 hp.  1st level characters hit them 70% of the time and still take 2 hits to kill.  It would take about 3 attacks to do this.  Again at 1 attack per round 6 attacks is quite a bit of time to have attacks coming back.A single giant wasp is a hard encounter for a single 1st level character.  3 of these encounters can level the character up.  They have AC 13 and 22 hp, and engage in flyby attacks.  The warlock can attack normally at range and a fighter who is not ranged can ready an action to attack.  A 1st level character will hit 65% of the time and it takes about 4 hits so 6 attacks.  A giant wasp does 10 damage so one round with shield likely deflects one attack.  It takes the wasp 2 hits to drop the warlock out of 4-5 attacks when 1 out of 3 is a hit.  That's significant chance to die that encounter.  A fighter with 19 AC and blade ward up takes 3 hits to drop using both second winds during the encounter with about 1 in 6 chance of being hit because of the higher AC and can use shield to deflect the 1 attack that might hit.  3 of those to level up would be 18 incoming attacks except I think the warlock would die.A performer is also a hard encounter for a single 1st level PC.  They have 13 AC and 27 hp.  They also have uncanny dodge.  A first level character hits that 65% of the time for about 4 damage after uncanny dodge halves it.  That takes about 11 attacks by one PC.  If it takes 10 round to kill an encounter that's 10 rounds of being attacked.It takes 1 hard, 2 medium, and 2 easy encounters for a 1st level character to level up.  Or 3 hard encounters, or 4 medium encounters, or 6 easy encounters.I'm not sure many players would say they take a short rest after every encounter but your warlock would need to, and on that same note the warlock needs to be capable of surviving the encounter in order to take the short rest.  There are plenty of encounters for 1st level characters where many attacks would be expected.  Not getting attacked for whatever reason isn't a demonstration of durability.You should demonstrate this.The fighter doesn't need to poison or scare enemies.  These provide disadvantage on attacks and the fighter can already do this with weapon mastery.  It's not like one source of disadvantage does more disadvantage than another source of disadvantage.What the fighter can also do is also pick up the shield and blade ward spells with magic initiate on a human who also has tough with the plan on going EK.   I am considering the shield spell.  I pointed out it's only good for a round.I also also have 2 out of 3 attacks missing the warlock.The problem is 3 out 4 of the attacks directed at the fighter's AC also miss before applying disadvantage from weapon mastery.  I didn't even give the fighter blade ward even tho it's easy to acquire.  The fighter would get hit less often.  Especially if the fighter also picks up blade ward and shield.Or the <9 because of the possible loss of blade ward.The presumptions you're expressing are going to apply to all classes and doesn't somehow make warlocks more durable when barbarians, clerics, fighters, and paladins aren't facing more attacks in the scenario.I could pick up the shield and blade ward spells on a druid, have healing spells, and make him human for the healer feat and that bonus to healing spells too and he'd be competitive with the warlock.  ;-)Based on what?Where did false life come into this?  Armor of agathys is only 5 hp and false life isn't on the warlock spell list.Disadvantage is the same disadvantage that longsword, morning star, flail, or war pick can also apply with the weapon and shield fighter.The humanoids often encounter at 1st level also have ranged weapons.  The non-humanoid can close fairly quickly.Are you implying I cannot make a ranged fighter?Shield isn't guaranteed to prevent that one hit, and a fighter can pick that up too.You were arguing that the number of attacks don't exist so how does this play out?  Is your argument that the warlock casts shield, then the fight ends quickly with the warlock never taking damage, then everyone takes a short rest so the shield spell is available?This would allow shield more often but that removes the 5 thp in the process.You don't think a dwarf fighter with the magic initiate feat with the higher AC, blade ward, the shield spell, and second wind is more durable?  The fighter can even keep blade ward up more consistently because they have CON save proficiency.</blockquote>

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