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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9602243" data-attributes="member: 6750235">I haven't omitted assumptions about the barbarian.  The problem is I don't see an options that's as good as the fighter adding cantrips and shield.I'm not sure what you think you're arguing against here.  I demonstrated that a barbarian can start with 18 AC and not much equipment.  Your choice of a battle axe removes the option for sap, however, and adds topple instead.  The 13 DC on that topple gives those goblin warriors from your example 40% chance to save even when hit which increases the number of times the barbarian gets hit compared to the fighter.Musician or Lucky don't have the number of uses at 1st level to match magic initiate using blade ward on every attack.  If you have a feat to match that I'm missing then demonstrated it.No.  Why would you ask that?  I pointed you you referenced a comment about goblin minions and then brought up goblin warriors as if they were the same thing.  Then I proceeded with the goblin warriors that you brought up.I haven't spun anything to the benefit of fighters.  Fighters last longer against goblin warriors too for the same reasons.  I can't cherry pick your examples, lol.I explained the difference then used your numbers, which doesn't change anything.  If you give different numbers, I point that out, and then use the numbers you gave with the same result that's not me "spinning things".  That's just me using the numbers you gave for the same results.The VTT's aren't the Monster Manual where I pulled that information from.  A slightly lower average damage is fair to all players.  It's not some weird advantage to fighters and not barbarians.  That's why I could demonstrate the same results with either damage method.I did my own analysis.  Barbarians have half the gold fighters do to buy starting equipment.  That's a fact.  A fighter starts with chainmail and a shield for 18 AC before anything else.  There's no reason for a fighter to start with a lower AC.  The second a barbarian makes the choice to add more rations and a decent ranged weapon they've purchased themselves out of that 18 AC for 1st level.If I'm making my fighter who plans on becoming an EK there's nothing wrong with the choices I made.  If I take dueling instead of the AC bonus then the barbarian is still getting hit 35% of the time giving him the best AC we can while the fighter is still only getting hit 22.5% of the time.  At that point sap is more reliable than topple for further benefit.It's not hard to build a defensive fighter more durable than a barbarian at 1st level.No.  It's a situational condition that you applied without any reason for it to apply and it's an ability fairly unique to better goblins instead of similar to abilities across the range of typical 1st level monsters.  I use all the same stat blocks.What's silly is assuming that all the damage is slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning.  That's the conditions favoring the barbarian when cherry picking opponents, which is something you trying to claim I was doing while you seem to restrict the monsters to only those damage types.  Monsters in the CR 0 through 1 range aren't restricted to those damage types.  Traps are not restricted to those damage types.Second wind heals all damage types.  Rage damage reduction does not prevent damage from all damage types.  That's not a spin either.  It's just a fact.</blockquote>

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