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<blockquote data-quote="Firebeetle" data-source="post: 3305283" data-attributes="member: 34506">Now, now, I didn't say a thing yet. Many, many others brought it up first.I did vote bard. My position on bard has been quite clear on other threads.Bard problems:1.) Bards are not the best &quot;face&quot; characters. If you want a face man, you are better off with Rogue or Sorcerer. (Rogues get more skill points, Sorcerers get familiar bonuses) 2.) Bard have no bonuses or special abilities regarding Bluff or Diplomacy. No bonus to those skills, no special uses. Bards should the best at these skills, period. I suggest a double CHA bonus to these skills, or a +2 to both, or special bard-only benefits like lessening or removing the rushed Diplomacy penalty. These would make bards more bardy.3.) Bards have crappy hit dice and BAB. One or the other needs to be improved. I suggest a d8 myself.4.) Not enough bardic music abilities and they are too dull. I recommend adding more abilities and making them Perform DC based. This opens a lot of options for the bard and would go a long way to making them better. In one of my home campaigns, we play Inspire Courage like this.Perform DC 15= +1Perform DC 20= +2Perform DC 25= +3Perform DC 30= +4You could also make abilities for specific Perform abilities (Dancing Distraction for Dance, etc.)5.) Second-hand spell list. Bards need and deserve their own spell list. Yes, the Spell Compendium helps. That and $150 of other books may make my class somewhat more agreeable, it's the base class that needs fixing. More bard only spells, bardy spells (say, Charm Person) need to be lower level for bards. 6.) Bardic Knowledge is entirely too vague. Another poster is obviously using it as Knowledge (everything), but it's not intended that way. Bardic knowledge needs a better definition.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Firebeetle, post: 3305283, member: 34506"] Now, now, I didn't say a thing yet. Many, many others brought it up first. I did vote bard. My position on bard has been quite clear on other threads. Bard problems: 1.) Bards are not the best "face" characters. If you want a face man, you are better off with Rogue or Sorcerer. (Rogues get more skill points, Sorcerers get familiar bonuses) 2.) Bard have no bonuses or special abilities regarding Bluff or Diplomacy. No bonus to those skills, no special uses. Bards should the best at these skills, period. I suggest a double CHA bonus to these skills, or a +2 to both, or special bard-only benefits like lessening or removing the rushed Diplomacy penalty. These would make bards more bardy. 3.) Bards have crappy hit dice and BAB. One or the other needs to be improved. I suggest a d8 myself. 4.) Not enough bardic music abilities and they are too dull. I recommend adding more abilities and making them Perform DC based. This opens a lot of options for the bard and would go a long way to making them better. In one of my home campaigns, we play Inspire Courage like this. Perform DC 15= +1 Perform DC 20= +2 Perform DC 25= +3 Perform DC 30= +4 You could also make abilities for specific Perform abilities (Dancing Distraction for Dance, etc.) 5.) Second-hand spell list. Bards need and deserve their own spell list. Yes, the Spell Compendium helps. That and $150 of other books may make my class somewhat more agreeable, it's the base class that needs fixing. More bard only spells, bardy spells (say, Charm Person) need to be lower level for bards. 6.) Bardic Knowledge is entirely too vague. Another poster is obviously using it as Knowledge (everything), but it's not intended that way. Bardic knowledge needs a better definition. [/QUOTE]

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