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Message: <blockquote data-quote="IamIan" data-source="post: 2659581" data-attributes="member: 37394">I voted palladin and monk...Monk is the long one get comfyIn truth the classes are well balanced if any two are a bit off I think it would be these.reasons... I know everyone keeps wondering why anyone would take monk...so I will start with Palladin <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />they are only class in 3.5 to get 2 attributes added for each save...they get good HP second only to barbarians.they get the best base attack on par with the fighter or barbarian.they get spells the fighter and barbarian don't get.lay on hands gives them feel healing of themselves even before spells but can also be used       as a weapon against undead...they as far as magic goes are 1/2 cleric but they get HP and base attack of fighter but the      powers and such they get more than compensate for lack of feats...now monk....the only class that doesn't have to spend any money on weapons or armor which is a big         expense...they have the best saves in the game except for paladin with fortitude...all the other classes if robed and naked have taken a serious blow and are dramatically      weaker the monk is not nearly as reduced.monks not having to spend money on weapons armor ingredients church offerings etc...       means that they will be the first people in the group to be able to afford magic       equipment... or bonuses.monks have skill selection I would say tied for 2nd with the bard with the rogue being of       course number one.Monks get dex and Wis added for AC dodge bonuses and additional bonuses...Monks can make great grapplers... better than I would say any other class... and grappling       is a far more powerful ability when done right than 90% ever realize...by mid level monk unarmed with no help from magic are doing per hit as much as 2       handed weapons do... and  why wouldn't they have magic help...they by mid level are doing crazy amounts of attacks and they have the second best base       attack rate .....by the end A fighter in armor vs a Monk not in armor MonkDex 18+2Race+5Lvs+5Book+6Item = 36  for +13 to ACWis 17+5Book+6Item = 28  for +9 to ACClass bonus +4 ACCompared to fighter Mitheral +5 Full Plate  13 Armor max of +3 DexMitheral  +5 Tower Shield +9 Armor max dex +4That’s it all other stuff can pretty much both classes can get and use… both can use ring of protection or natural armor ect….So fighter has base10+13Armor+9Shield+3Dex = 35So monk has base10+13Dex+9Wis+4AC = 36 The monk starts the same as low level fighter who can’t afford much armorMid level the fighter pulls ahead a littleBy the end the Monk passes the fighter’s AC still without the weight or skill penalty.----------------------Base attack…Fighter is +3 better by Lv 11  and +5 better by Lv 20Ahhh But you forget young one … any class can get the fighter’s base attack Transformation Spell Lv6 Times Caster Lv12 Times 2,000 = 144,000So for 12 Rounds 5 times per day anybody can have fighter’s base attack…….In the beginning they are virtually the sameSo by mid level fighter has tiny edge over monk in the to hit category… (+3)By the end the monk catches the Fighter in to hit bonuses.----------what about damage ?Monk goes up to 2d10+Str+5Enchantment   average  12+Str+EnchantmentFight can get 2d6+1½  Str+5Enchantment+4from feats     ~ 12+1½Str+EnchantmentLooks like the fighter…. But looks are deceiving….Monk’s get more attacks 1 more at level 12 more at full base attack with no penalty by Lv 11which means by the end the monk with transformation has the same base attack as     the fighter  +20 / +15 / +10 / +5…. But the Monk’s Flurry of Blows does …     +20 / +20 / +20 / +15 / +10 / +5….. by then the monk can easily afford….     Boots of speed for haste ….  +20 / +20 / +20 / +20 / +15 / +10 / +5In other words the monk may not get 1½Str for Damage but he gets at least 2 more full        hits in than the fighter….Str for either is the same … 18+5Book+6Item+5Lv = 34 or +12 Damage+18 for two handed 1½Strsooo…..   12+12+E = 24+E    vs    12+18+E = 30+Eahhhh yes but you are forgetting those extra attacks….E’s cancel so it leaves  monk 24 , 24 , 24 , 24 , 24 , 24 = 144Fighter is 30 , 30 , 30 , 30 = 120So monk does more damage    even if they both hit with every blowMore likely the monk will hit more often then fighter as Fighter only has one +20 base attack and the monk has 3.Damage dealing goes to monk..--------------saving throws….. this is a no brainer monk has better saves by lv 1Monk has better saves than anybody by lv10Monk has wonder saves better than everybody by lv20Only possible exception is the fort save of the paladin.-------------Skills…. Monks beat fighter’s hands down…. --------------Monk powers are more powerful than the extra feats---------------HP….. ok Fighter has extra HP on average 1 more per level…For a huge +20 by Lv 20……Ohhhhh…. Wait the monk can in addition to any magic items either has can      Heal 2x Monk Lv or by then it is 40 HP worth of extra healing…Fighter gets 1 more HP per level monk gets extra heal for more…Monk wins here tooo.--------------Monk’s unarmed will automatically get DR beating abilities others have to pay for.----------Monk get DR everyone but barbarians have to pay for-----------Spring attack on a high level monk is devastating… they are too fast.Base +60 = 90 for most + 30 Haste = 120 or morehe is 60 feet away... spring attacks you... doesn't provok attack of opertunity and thenafter his attack he is 60 feet away again....---------------graapling is devistating if done right-------------if the fighter / barbarian / paladin / etc... are disarmed very likely for a good monk to dothen they are going to be in for a world of hurt.</blockquote>

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