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Message: <blockquote data-quote="IamIan" data-source="post: 2659828" data-attributes="member: 37394">even with several points lower ... what about starting with 16 instead of 18... the rest of the bonuses are easy to get by lv 20...the monk wins...[QUOTEMerlion]Eh...maybe. The Monk is one of the only classes that has the defenses to get past a Clerics offensive and immobilization spells. However all the Cleric has to do is cast Divine Power and beat the crud out of the Monk.</blockquote>sorry Devine Power won't save the clericIt gives Cleric base attack same as fighter... +6 Str ( but same thing as belt +6 ) at most +20 Temp HP... hardly save you....especially becuase:as a Lv4 spell x Caster Lv 8 x 2,000 use activated = 64,000hardly expensive for lv 20 and cheeper than transformation's 144,000 actually.So the Monk can have the same thing by that level easy.even if monk didn't have it and why not??The monk still has 2 more attacks at best base attack... still does more damage per round.... still has better saves... still is far better at hiding..... yeagh go cast something... provokes attack of opertunity make concentration check to cast spell that won't work on me while I beat the Holy Sipirt out of you... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ... disarm you're now seriously underpowered offensively... maybe I'll grapple you which as a touch attack ignores all that fancy armor and shields... or maybe I will just use spring attack from 60 feet away attack hit and do damage... spring back 60 feet and taunt you .... you try to close distance but are never fast enough to do so... your spells have a VERY low chance of working on the monk by Lv 20 ...  plus the great amount of distance 600+Feet per round can cover or give... Monk can suddenly be out of range and then in your face.mid level... the cleric has a chance... by Lv 20 bet on the monk anyday and 10x on Sunday Day of rest my ass.Cleric can be great for support... but if 2 clerics are there than to be fair lets have 2 monks.. and it still boils down to 1 on 1.[/QUOTE]

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