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Message: <blockquote data-quote="IamIan" data-source="post: 2661658" data-attributes="member: 37394">.... the grapple fighter will have +3 Better Grapple but do d4+9 instead of d10+9. and the fighter has to get closer first. If the fighter is not going for grapple but instead out of the 49,000 GP of the example buys +1 or +2 weapons and armor he will have a better to hit and better AC but will not be as good of a grappler as he could have been.... I also already said that the Barbarian actually makes the better Grappler with higher Str from Rage and equal to fighter base attack..... low level either die from slipping on wet floor...Mid Level Fighter has slight edge...By Lv 20  Monk passes up Fighter in AC and damage per round and has equal base attack.By Lv 20 Monk has ~20 less HP than fighter but heals self 40 HP / Dayby Lv 20 Monk has crazy Speed and better saves.Spring Attack is ment to complicate what the proper choice would be ... you ready for the spring Monk hits you with shirikin .... Plus this is still in the mid levels where I have already said fighters have an edge.I have seen this... and I disagree... I know what the class can do... I just disagree... I put different value on different things.... for me Monks are way strong as a class...And for me Clerics are forced multi-taskers and jack of all trades.my 2 bits</blockquote>