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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 2662368" data-attributes="member: 307">Huh? How do you get that he has equal BAB? The monk's BAB is only +15, the fighter's is +20. As for damage, sure the monk gets 2d10 base (2-20, 11 average), but by then a fair number of fighters will have Greater Weapon Specialization, the example greatsword wielder I put forward, by 20th level, would have base damage with his chosen weapon of 2d6+4 (6-16, 11 average), not counting strength bonuses and magical enhancements. The fighter gets more bang for his Strength too, since he will often be getting his bonus x1.5 to damage, wheras the unarmed monk doesn't. The fighter is probably going to have a higher AC than your example monk too.By level 20, your example monk has, on average 90 hit points. The example fighter has, on average 170 hit points. That's a little more than "~20 less". You could add som Constitution enhancing items to the monk, but the fighter could too, so that's a wash. Yes, he does. But that's not very valuable, given that 20th level characters often have access to lots of items to enhance speed, making the fighter able to move about better as well. And being fast doesn't really help the monk fight, it helps him avoid fighting. Given the monk's low AC and mediocre hit points, he needs to avoid fighting.Actually, going back to the 10th level matchup we've set out, what the fighter probably does is pull out his javelins and make you a pincusion - 3d6+18 damage (28.5 average) in all probability (his first two attacks have a 95% chance of hitting you, his third has an 85% chance). If you dance around some more, he'll pull out his bow the next round and pepper you some more for 3d8+12 damage (25.5 average, once again, the first two hit 95% of the time, the last 85%). In two short rounds, the fighter has a good chance at killing off your example monk with limited danger to himself, and using his tertiary combat mode.Of course, if he does ready an action, and you pull out your shuriken, you are really not going to scare him. In your example, you are 45 feet away. The shuriken has a range increment of 10 feet, meaning you have a -8 range penalty to your attacks to begin with. You can flurry with shuriken, but due to your lousy Dex score, your attack is only  +8/+8/+2, reduce it by the -8 range penalty, and you need a natural 20 to hit the fighter even if you use masterwork shuriken. You deal 1d2 + Strength bonus damage in the unlikely event that you hit (you have a 5% chance of hitting with any of these attacks). The next round the fighter just goes ahead and charges; and at +19 to hit (while charging) he can afford to Power Attack for 6 points without affecting his attack roll at all: is your monk prepared for a 95% probability of taking 3d6+24 damage (34.5 average) before he grapples the fighter?The monk will probably last two rounds against the fighter. Maybe three if he gets lucky.</blockquote>

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