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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 2662801" data-attributes="member: 307">The thing is, it is not that hard to do better with a monk than IamIan's example, which makes it sort of like shooting fish in a barrel dealing with him. Even a more well-developed monk still has problems - his lower BAB, weak hit points, and dependence on stats makes survival hard. As an example (24 point buy, 49,000 gp):10th level Human MonkStr 18, Int 10, Wis 16, Dex 16, Con 12, Cha 8; Fort +10, Reflex +12, Will +12; Init +7; Move 60 feet; AC 23 (+3 Dex, +3 Wis, +2 monk, +2 ring, +3 armor); HD 10d8+10; HP 55; BAB +7/+2; Grapple +15; Attacks: unarmed strike +12/+12/+7 melee (1d10+5, bludgeoning, 20 x2), or quarterstaff +12/+12/+7 melee (1d6+4, bludgeoning, 20 x2), or shuriken +11/+11/+6 ranged (1d2+4, piercing, 20 x2, 10 feet x5), or light crossbow +11/+6 ranged (1d8, piercing, 19-20 x2, 80 feet x10); SQ improved evasion, still mind, ki strike (lawful, magic), slow fall 50 feet, purity of body, wholeness of body (20 points); Feats: Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Spring Attack, Stunning Fist; Skills: Balance +19, Escape Artist +17, Jump +20, Spot +16, Tumble +19, Use Rope +3 (+5 for checks involving bindings).Equipment:+2 Gloves of Dexterity - 4,000 gp+1 Amulet of Mighty Fists - 6,000 gp+4 Belt of Giant Strength - 16,000 gp+2 Ring of Protection - 8,000 gp+3 Bracers of Armor - 9,000 gp+2 Cloak of Resistance - 4,000 gpMasterwork Quarterstaff - 600 gpMasterwork Shuriken (50) - 301 gpMasterwork Light Crossbow - 335 gpGold remaining for sundry items (minor potions, mount, bolts, food, etc.) - 764 gpSo, what is the upshot? He's fast, that's certain. And he's fixed the atrocious AC of IamIan's example, and can make a lot of saves. But while he's improved on his hit points, he's still weak there, and his attacks, while better, are still lower than dedicated combatants. His unarmed attacks are nice (although no better than most melee weapons), but if he runs into something that makes those a bad idea, his other attacks are pretty weak. The amulet slot is crowded, he had to forego a +2 amulet of health or a +2 periapt of wisdom to get his amulet of mighty fists, and he doesn't have a monk's belt because that slot is needed for his belt of giant strength. His best maneuver is to try to get positional advantages with his speed and combination of Mobility, Spring Attack, and Tumbling. Unfortunately, once he gets there, he is probably going to get mauled pretty badly.Is this monk a better party member than IamIan's example? Sure. Is he better than a comparable 10th level fighter? No.</blockquote>

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