Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Which Class or classes do you feel are unbalanced-Underpowered
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 2659862" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>My view:</p><p></p><p>Monk is not an underpowered class. It's just a class that's easy to screw up because 3 out of 4 players seem to think "ooh, monk--I'll take a 10 strength and beat up bad guys; I get 2d10 damage from my fists" and then wonder why they're doing 11 points of damage at 20th level when the fighter is doing 35 points of damage and one point of con per hit. If you use stunning fist, grapple, etc to your advantage, however, and get the party to properly buff you, you end up very effective. And it doesn't require particularly high ability scores to do right either. Two of the most combat effective Living Greyhawk characters I've seen are 28 point buy monks. (Of course, I've seen quite a few weak Living Greyhawk monks too for exactly the reaons I described earlier--if you ever end up saying "but without spikes, my character won't deal any damage" it should be a clue that your character has completely neglected his offensive ability).</p><p></p><p>Paladin is a hard class to judge. Core rules only, I'd say that they're weak--at least until level 10 or so. However, with divine might, extra smiting, etc, I think they hang in with the other classes very well. Paladins benefit a LOT from non-core material.</p><p></p><p>Fighter is another class that benefits a lot from non-core material. With Complete Warrior, etc, I think that the fighter class stands up to barbarian etc quite well--even at high levels. In a core only game, it's probably a bit weak but the problem is primarily the lack of specific abilities past level 12. (And the real competition IME is not the barbarian or the paladin but the barbarian/fighter).</p><p></p><p>Bard is, as other people have pointed out, a support character. In that role, a bard is a very useful and powerful character, but they aren't as shiny as wizards, clerics, etc. Their problem is spotlight time not power.</p><p></p><p>The only class that I've observed to be weak is the rogue and I wouldn't really say weak as much as vulnerable to being screwed over. Playing a rogue in an undead module or a game full of constructs is an exercise in frustration. Since such modules are fairly common--especially at high levels, Rogue can be underpowered.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 2659862, member: 3146"] My view: Monk is not an underpowered class. It's just a class that's easy to screw up because 3 out of 4 players seem to think "ooh, monk--I'll take a 10 strength and beat up bad guys; I get 2d10 damage from my fists" and then wonder why they're doing 11 points of damage at 20th level when the fighter is doing 35 points of damage and one point of con per hit. If you use stunning fist, grapple, etc to your advantage, however, and get the party to properly buff you, you end up very effective. And it doesn't require particularly high ability scores to do right either. Two of the most combat effective Living Greyhawk characters I've seen are 28 point buy monks. (Of course, I've seen quite a few weak Living Greyhawk monks too for exactly the reaons I described earlier--if you ever end up saying "but without spikes, my character won't deal any damage" it should be a clue that your character has completely neglected his offensive ability). Paladin is a hard class to judge. Core rules only, I'd say that they're weak--at least until level 10 or so. However, with divine might, extra smiting, etc, I think they hang in with the other classes very well. Paladins benefit a LOT from non-core material. Fighter is another class that benefits a lot from non-core material. With Complete Warrior, etc, I think that the fighter class stands up to barbarian etc quite well--even at high levels. In a core only game, it's probably a bit weak but the problem is primarily the lack of specific abilities past level 12. (And the real competition IME is not the barbarian or the paladin but the barbarian/fighter). Bard is, as other people have pointed out, a support character. In that role, a bard is a very useful and powerful character, but they aren't as shiny as wizards, clerics, etc. Their problem is spotlight time not power. The only class that I've observed to be weak is the rogue and I wouldn't really say weak as much as vulnerable to being screwed over. Playing a rogue in an undead module or a game full of constructs is an exercise in frustration. Since such modules are fairly common--especially at high levels, Rogue can be underpowered. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Which Class or classes do you feel are unbalanced-Underpowered
Top