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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2666893" data-attributes="member: 2011">No problem with that.Only a problem if the Fighter always does it. If he is not willing to be a team player, he gets what he deserves.No doubt, but on this you are still wrong. Average 4.5+CON versus 2.5+CON. Clerics do NOT average twice as many hit points as Wizards. They average ~2 more hit points per level as Wizards.Most enemies do not have a great grapple.The grapple of the Evard's is 15 for a 7th level Wizard. No saving throw. No spell resistance. No touch attack required. Ties usually go to the spell since very few 7th level opponents have a higher grapple.The grapple of a 7th level Fighter with a 18 Strength is 11. The spell wins 70% of rounds.The grapple of a 7th level Cleric with a 16 Strength is 8. The spell wins 80.5% of rounds.The grapple of a 7th level Rogue with a 14 Strength is 7. The spell wins 86% of rounds.(note: a Rogue who maxxed out Escape Artist could probably get out nearly 50% of the time)The grapple of a 7th level Wizard with a 12 Strength is 4. The spell wins 92% of rounds.Sure, there is a slim chance of getting out for most opponents and strong combatant types like Fighters and Barbarians can manage it. Or, combatant types with Improved Grapple. But, many other classes (and monsters) cannot get out quickly.Now granted, the spell only lasts 7 rounds and does not in and of itself do a lot of damage. But, that is a LONG time in combat to be wasting rounds attempting to get out of a grapple. Plenty of time to follow up with Fireballs or arrows or other attack forms.If a 12 Strength Wizard gets caught in it and does not have Dimension Door or Gaseous Form or Grease and a good Concentration skill, he could be in big trouble. His chances of getting out before the spell expires in only 44%.And even if opponents do manage to get out, the rest of the PCs can often gang up on the ones who get out each round.It is a pretty devastating spell at 7th level, especially when combined with other spells. And, the grapple of it improves by caster level, so it is still an ok spell at 20th level with a grapple check of 28 (although more opponents have more options to escape by that level).It doesn't. It has to do with Wizards not needing high hit points and AC if they rarely get targeted.You have to play to your strengths and to your weaknesses. Precisely.And, not too often multi-target spell casters against opponents. There are a few spells like that, but not many.</blockquote>

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