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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shard O'Glase" data-source="post: 2667333" data-attributes="member: 1134">Yeah my maxed out standard array no magic weapon rogue.  Using 4 of 5 or 6 feats for combat, cause he really needs those +2/+2 skill feats with his 8 skill points per level.Now lets look at CR 13 monstersBeholder AC 19celestial charger(unicorn) Ac 24Ghalee (eladrin)  AC 25Glabrezu (demon) AC 27Giant, Storm  Ac 27Golem, iron  AC 30(immune to sneak attacks)Hydra 12 headed pryo,cyro  AC 22ice devil (gelugon)  AC 32lich human wizard AC 23(immune to sneak attack)mummy lord AC 30 (immune to sneak attack)Slaad, death  AC 28Yeah there just packed with 30+ ac's 26 was a low ac to show as your first exmaple.  So when he's facing a few of the really high ac characters and isn't wieding magic weapons he's down to .5 sneak attacks.  Now vs the majority of these guys since he will have some kind of magic swords by level 13 he's getting 2+ sneak attacks when in positon.  And with tumble he likey can get in positon every round.  Add in cripling strike at 10th or 13th level and every sneak attack is also causeing 2 str damage, if lucky in a couple rounds they can drastically weaken a foes melee capabilities.  And oportunist gives +1 attack in quite a fee rounds, and definetly every time the rogue is flanking someone with a competent fighter type.  Adding in even more sneak attacking and cripling goodness.  Unless your stacking foes against sneak attacking rogues the rogues damage output will vastly out perform the bards buff even at +3/+3.  And this is just pure combat effecitveness, the rogue is suppsoed to be mainly a skill monkey and he provides that well, and is also (due to poor design IMO) the only pc capable of finding and removing traps.</blockquote>

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