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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 2668447" data-attributes="member: 307">Except your "basic idea of the concept" is flawed.Exactly how is a single area specialist "uber"? You've claimed that monk's are overpowered, but since it has been conclusively shown that they aren't, your claim now morphs to "they can be really good at a specialty"! And they aren't even the best at it.And exactly how does being a "specialist in AC" make the monk "uber"? In the case of your example monk, his glaring weaknesses probably make him "dead".And they are. Watch and learn.Too bad you are out of money, and those items don't exist. Of course, if you gave the other classes infinite amounts of money they would be able to do all kinds of exotic things too.No the question was whether a monk was "uber". You've clearly shown that he isn't. And here is the proof that he's not even that good at his own specialty.20th level Human FighterStr 32 (16 base, +5 level, +5 book, +6 gloves), Int 13, Wis 10, Dex 16 (10 base + 6 gloves), Con 20 (14 base +4 book, +2 stone), Cha 8; Fort +24 (+12 base, +5 cloak, +1 stone, +5 ability, +1 ioun), Reflex +18 (+6 base +2 feat +3 ability +5 cloak +1 stone, +1 ioun), Will +16 (+6 base +2 feat, +5 cloak +1 stone, +1 ioun); HD 20d10+100; HP 210 (average); Init +3; Speed 20 feet (30 feet base); AC 46 (+13 armor, +9 shield, +5 ring, +5 natural, +1 ioun, +3 Dex), BAB +20/+15/+10/+5; Grapple +35; Attacks falchion +39/+39/+34/+29/+24 melee (2d4+25, slashing, 16-20 x2), or composite longbow +26/+21/+16/+11 ranged (1d8+13, piercing, 20 x3, 110 feet x10); Feats: Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Great Cleave, Greater Weapon Focus (Falchion), Greater Weapon Specialization (Falchion), Improved Critical (Falchion), Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Iron Will, Lighning Reflexes, Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Falchion), Weapon Specialization (Falchion), Quick-Draw; Skills: Climb +28, Handle Animal +6, Jump +20, Ride +31, Swim +13 (all including applicable armor check penalties).Equipment+6 belt of giant strength - 36,000 gp+6 gloves of dexterity - 36,000 gp+5 amulate of natural armor - 50,000 gp+5 ring of protection - 50,000 gp+5 mithral full plate armor - 35,650 gp+5 animated mithral tower shield - 50,180 gp+5 cloak of resistance - 25,000 gp+4 manual of bodily health - 110,000 gp+5 manual of gainful excercise - 137,500 gpluckstone 10,000 gp+5 defending adamantine falchion of speed - 131,350 gp+2 mighty (+10) composite longbow - 9,100 gpefficient quiver - 1,800 gpioun stone (+1 AC) - 5,000 gpioun stone (+2 Constitution) - 8,000 gpioun stone (+1 attacks, saves, skills checks, ability checks) - 30,000 gpTOTAL - 759,580 gpNow, you look at his AC and say "hey, that's lower than the monk". BUt, since you used situational modifiers for your monk, I'll use them for the fighter. He can use Combat Expertise, and the defending property of his sword to up his AC by +10 points. The final total is:AC 56 (+13 armor, +9 shield, +5 ring +5 natural +1 stone, +3 Dex, +5 expertise, +5 dfeending weapon).All core, and I didn't even use things like Dodge, boots of speed, or make him a halfling (which could have raised his AC another 3 points, I'd have had to give up an item for the boots, but then I probably wouldn't have bought the speed property on the falchion and saved a boatload of cash). And the fighter still attacks at +29/+29/+24/+19/+14. Sure, he needs 20s to hit the monk, but the monk needs 20s to hit him. The fighter deals 30 damage on average when he hits. The monk deals 12 on average. The monk has an average of 70 hit points (not ~80 as you erroneously stated). The fighter has an average of 210. The fighter has to hit the monk 3 times, and deal average damage to put the monk down. The monk has to hit the fighter 18 times dealing average damage to put the fighter down. If the monk stops to heal himself, he doesn't get to attack that round. Even if we treat the 40 hit points of healing from wholeness of body as "extra" hit points, the fighter still only needs to hit the monk for times with average damage to put him down. If the monk tries to grapple the fighter, the fighter has +35 to the opposed roll, the monk has +14.In a fight between the two, assuming they both hit, on average 5% of the time (and assuming 50% of the fighter's attacks miss due to the ring of blinking), and deal average damage per hit (not even including the possibility of critical hits, which, if included, would vastly favor the fighter), the fight would last 20 rounds. The fighter gets 5 attacks per round. For the first ten rounds, the monk would get 6 attacks per round, and then his boots of speed would run out; from then on he gets 5 attacks per round. Some time after the first ten rounds of combat, the monk would need to stop attacking to use wholeness of body.1st 10 Rounds:Monk's Average Damage Inflicted Per Round: 3.60Fighter's Average Damage Inflicted Per Round: 3.75Remaining Rounds:Monk's Average Damage Per Round: 3.00Fighter's Average Damage Per Round: 3.75The monk is reduced to -3 hit points in Round 20, even after using his entire alotment of wholeness of body. The fighter still has 147 hit points.As a side note, if the fighter doesn't want to turtle up, he could just let fly at his full attack bonus. In that case, the fight is shorter and bloodier: it lasts on average 8 rounds before the monk goes down, but the monk inflicts more damage too (since the fighter's AC is lower), and the fighter ends the fight with 109 hit points remaining.Now, exactly how was a monk "uber" and "overpowered" again?</blockquote>

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