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<blockquote data-quote="Undrave" data-source="post: 9362909" data-attributes="member: 7015698">How is it fun for people who like an archetype when it's the designated dud? That it gets outshined by folks who can do exactly all it does but get more goodies on top?How is it less immersive that some people just don't have the training to do something in particular?I've never seen that opinion. Ever.There is no disclaimer.Popularity doesn't mean a design is good, and FYI, I think 5e is balanced well enough for most people. You need to actualy think about what your doing for a Wizard to outshadow other classes.And the reason is that it's not fun to be the dud.Your dismissiveness of the Fighter is due to the lack of a strong identity. He's just a random guy with a sword to you who's not allowed to be special because 'he's just the fighter'. You don't care if the Fighter sucks because you don't care about the Fighter because it's no defined well enough so it ends up being the non-class in your mind. All the other martial class are just 'Fighter+Something Cool'. It shouldn't be that way, the Fighter should also get something cool that defines it.Why? The Fighter is the specialist, the one spending his time training hard. It's like saying every doctor can be a brain surgeon! The Fighter should be the brain surgeon of weapon wielding. Not everybody who does karate gets to be a black belt! It also works that way for weapons.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Undrave, post: 9362909, member: 7015698"] How is it fun for people who like an archetype when it's the designated dud? That it gets outshined by folks who can do exactly all it does but get more goodies on top? How is it less immersive that some people just don't have the training to do something in particular? I've never seen that opinion. Ever. There is no disclaimer. Popularity doesn't mean a design is good, and FYI, I think 5e is balanced well enough for most people. You need to actualy think about what your doing for a Wizard to outshadow other classes. And the reason is that it's not fun to be the dud. Your dismissiveness of the Fighter is due to the lack of a strong identity. He's just a random guy with a sword to you who's not allowed to be special because 'he's just the fighter'. You don't care if the Fighter sucks because you don't care about the Fighter because it's no defined well enough so it ends up being the non-class in your mind. All the other martial class are just 'Fighter+Something Cool'. It shouldn't be that way, the Fighter should also get something cool that defines it. Why? The Fighter is the specialist, the one spending his time training hard. It's like saying every doctor can be a brain surgeon! The Fighter should be the brain surgeon of weapon wielding. Not everybody who does karate gets to be a black belt! It also works that way for weapons. [/QUOTE]

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