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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9365848" data-attributes="member: 23751">There is nothing suboptimal about the fighter and my goals.&nbsp; Were combat important to me, then and only then would you be correct. As for the Cavalier, it doesn't work since everything it gets is combat related and I don't care about combat.&nbsp; Knights had other skills which the Cavalier doesn't have, but the Purple Dragon Knight at least has some of.&nbsp; The Samurai and Battlemaster are not knights, though the Samurai does have abilities that help outside of combat.&nbsp; I want a knight, not a Samurai.Also, if people are playing a game that has any sense of realism at all, there is no party face.&nbsp; A king would be insulted if every time he asked the Barbarian something, the Bard answered, and NPCs don't just talk to the one person you want them to.&nbsp; My knight will talk to people and try to persuade them of things, including important people.&nbsp; I'm not going to allow someone else to do all my talking for me.Names mean something.&nbsp; A Samurai or Battlemaster will never be a knight subclass, because they are not knight subclasses.&nbsp; They are a Samurai and a Battlemaster.&nbsp; A Cavalier could be a knight, but I'm not interested in only combat, so none of those can match my concept.&nbsp; I'm also glad you didn't get into Echo or Eldritch knights as they also don't match my concept and are in fact worse at it than the Samurai.&nbsp; I don't want magic involved.You still haven't proven or even attempted to prove my choice to be objectively bad by the way.&nbsp; Simply listing out things that might possibly maybe fit is not any sort of proof.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 9365848, member: 23751"] There is nothing suboptimal about the fighter and my goals. Were combat important to me, then and only then would you be correct. As for the Cavalier, it doesn't work since everything it gets is combat related and I don't care about combat. Knights had other skills which the Cavalier doesn't have, but the Purple Dragon Knight at least has some of. The Samurai and Battlemaster are not knights, though the Samurai does have abilities that help outside of combat. I want a knight, not a Samurai. Also, if people are playing a game that has any sense of realism at all, there is no party face. A king would be insulted if every time he asked the Barbarian something, the Bard answered, and NPCs don't just talk to the one person you want them to. My knight will talk to people and try to persuade them of things, including important people. I'm not going to allow someone else to do all my talking for me. Names mean something. A Samurai or Battlemaster will never be a knight subclass, because they are not knight subclasses. They are a Samurai and a Battlemaster. A Cavalier could be a knight, but I'm not interested in only combat, so none of those can match my concept. I'm also glad you didn't get into Echo or Eldritch knights as they also don't match my concept and are in fact worse at it than the Samurai. I don't want magic involved. You still haven't proven or even attempted to prove my choice to be objectively bad by the way. Simply listing out things that might possibly maybe fit is not any sort of proof. [/QUOTE]

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