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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6360661" data-attributes="member: 18">I can't really comment on that unless you can explain how the 5E version is the most "Bard-like", I mean, what's your basis of comparison here?For me, the biggest thing that defines a Bard as a Bard, not just a multi-class dabbler, is his music, which he uses largely to support his colleagues (and indeed supporting his party is a huge thing, and huge part of what I like about the class), and his very wide knowledge, about, well, pretty much everything.The problem with the 5E Bard, for me, is that he doesn't really get to buff his party - his spell list carefully excludes party-buff spells to a huge extent(even as other full-casters all get them) - in particular, one Bard ability in almost all previous editions was to buff the party in combat. This guy can't do that.But the Cleric can. A few levels into the game, the Cleric can easily afford to cast Bless every combat (and if he isn't casting Bless, it's probably only because he has some nasty CC spell out which is situationally even better).Further, the inspiration ability, which could be cool, even with the limited uses (CHA mod, doesn't even refresh on short rest until L5), is made extremely weak by the fact that it requires you to use a bonus action to give out the bonuses, so you can't use them as a reaction to changing circumstances or to help someone in dire need or the like, you have to pre-emptively hand them out, and hope that they aren't wasted.On top of that, the "After the roll but before the DM says the result" deal is something that I know from long experience of such abilities in various games is intensely disruptive, because it leads to the DM constantly having to pause after the roll to allow a second or three for the player to say "I add Bard dice!" (because let's be real, you don't remember which PCs have them, as DM, not all the time). If the Bard is a Loremaster, he even has to do it on his OWN rolls!So the whole main ability of Bards to buff the party in 5E seems janky.As I've noted, they moved most Bard abilities to spells (fine, I guess), but they didn't both to move the songs (even though they DID move the Pally Auras for the Pally, for example!), and on top of that, if you want to use other "standard" Bard abilities of old, you have to burn quite a few of your "Known Spell" slots on slightly janky stuff like Identify. Or just not have those once-standard Bard abilities.So yeah, it's like a half-finished design to me. As I've said, more of an Enchanter/Illusionist with a Bard theme than an actual Bard-Bard.</blockquote>

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