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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7322111" data-attributes="member: 6880599">While I see your point but we do have the arcane archer sub class so its not like we don't feed those niches. The thing is a summer would specialize by what it can summon so its too large to be a Wizard School of Summoning because of the same reasons the School of Conjuration is very underwhelming in my opinion. The biggest part of that is that it is based off of the wizard class and has so much strength in spell quantity and diversity that making them better more vestal summoners makes them supper powerful. The result is watered down summoner utility to the point where its mostly combat with a few gimmicks and a very flexible wizard spell list to fix it. Don't get me wrong, I think it is playable but most of the wizard subclasses could be expanded into there own class with subclasses and be a lot more interesting. My favorite subclass to further develop being the summoner, then you divide the sub classes by primary combat, utility, and support. They would have a little cross over but distinct roles and flavor greater than that of Wizard subclasses which rely on the HUGE flexability of the Wizard class while also being stifled by the need to balance that. If you look at several of the classes listed by the OP or other suggestions and could see them as larger scaled version of a watered down Wizard sub class that people want to sale up to something more.School of Abjuration ==> Actually to me is the default Wizard having defensive spells if you push any further to defense you become a Cleric.School of Conjuration ==> Summoner School of Divination ==> ProphetSchool of Enchantment ==> "Enchantress" / beguiler / charmer / seducer / SirenSchool of Evocation ==> SorcererSchool of Illusion ==> Jester / Cleric Domain of TricksterSchool of Necromancy ==> NecromancerSchool of War Magic ==> DuskbladeSchool of Transmutation ==> Artificier Bonus:Druid of the Moon ==> Shaman (Arguably should have been a shaman to begin with)You could argue sub classes cover these and the only caster class you need is wizards.... or Get rid of Arcane recovery, Spell Mastery, Signature Spells, and restrict spells to the schools, then buff up the school abilities to giver the schools greater identity, and last give them a few cross school spells similar to the Eldritch Knight so that you allow some wizard diversity but its restrained enough to make the Schools different enough to make people more happy with them. Since that is not likely to happen people want classes instead.The bute is almost a direct copy of monks scaling damage unarmed and with "monk weapons" combine with fighters multiple attacks similar to flurry of blows and several barbarian abilities but you can wear armor. Really look and see.</blockquote>

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