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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7323383">Then can you play a cleric or bard and fluff it up to non-magic?&nbsp; (I suspect not, but why is it different?)Ah, I had actually missed that you are ok with &quot;supernatural&quot;.&nbsp; A lot of people (Tony Vargas, for one) insist that it can't even be supernatural.&nbsp; It must be entirely mundane.&nbsp; That makes some of it more acceptable to me.Bard Inspiration Dice for example.&nbsp; Call it magic, call it supernatural, but it's something other than my character just really being impressed with the Bard.&nbsp; And therefore fine.Ok, then, I'll try again: just because I don't complain about specific abilities with Mastermind or Purple Dragon Knight or Battlemaster (or Samurai) doesn't mean I like them.&nbsp; We just never have long threads discussing them.&nbsp; AND those other examples have just one or two abilities that trigger my roleplaying-ometer.&nbsp; An entire class built around those concepts triggers it a lot more.Analogy: I don't like rapiers.&nbsp; I sometimes bring that up, often as an illustrative case, but I don't start threads on how much I dislike rapiers.&nbsp; But if an active sub-community were lobbying for an entire class built around the rapier, I would probably chime in on why I think that's an awful idea.&nbsp; And if I got told that I was wrong because there's no valid reason for disliking rapiers (replete with spreadsheets showing how they aren't unbalanced) I might take umbrage.It's funny I get accused of being an irrational zealot.&nbsp; Here's my take on how these conversations always unfold:Somebody: &quot;There is no rational reason to be opposed to Warlords.&quot;Me: &quot;I have one: the concept of the class implies non-magical influence over my character that I find unacceptable.&quot;Somebody and somebody else: &quot;No, you are simply wrong, that is not a valid reason to be opposed.&quot;(Now that I think about it, there's huge irony here: &quot;I don't like the class because it implies that somebody else is dictating what my character thinks.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;No, you can't possibly think that.&quot;)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 7323383"] Then can you play a cleric or bard and fluff it up to non-magic? (I suspect not, but why is it different?) Ah, I had actually missed that you are ok with "supernatural". A lot of people (Tony Vargas, for one) insist that it can't even be supernatural. It must be entirely mundane. That makes some of it more acceptable to me. Bard Inspiration Dice for example. Call it magic, call it supernatural, but it's [I]something[/I] other than my character just really being impressed with the Bard. And therefore fine. Ok, then, I'll try again: just because I don't complain about specific abilities with Mastermind or Purple Dragon Knight or Battlemaster (or Samurai) doesn't mean I like them. We just never have long threads discussing them. AND those other examples have just one or two abilities that trigger my roleplaying-ometer. An entire class built around those concepts triggers it a lot more. Analogy: I don't like rapiers. I sometimes bring that up, often as an illustrative case, but I don't start threads on how much I dislike rapiers. But if an active sub-community were lobbying for an entire class built around the rapier, I would probably chime in on why I think that's an awful idea. And if I got told that I was wrong because there's no valid reason for disliking rapiers (replete with spreadsheets showing how they aren't unbalanced) I might take umbrage. It's funny I get accused of being an irrational zealot. Here's my take on how these conversations always unfold: Somebody: "There is no rational reason to be opposed to Warlords." Me: "I have one: the concept of the class implies non-magical influence over my character that I find unacceptable." Somebody and somebody else: "No, you are simply wrong, that is not a valid reason to be opposed." (Now that I think about it, there's huge irony here: "I don't like the class because it implies that somebody else is dictating what my character thinks." "No, you can't possibly think that.") [/QUOTE]

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