Level Up (A5E) Which Comabt Traditions should an A5e Hexblade have access to?

Which Traditions should an A5e Hexblade have access to?

  • Adamant Mountain

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  • Biting Zephyr

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  • Sanguine Knot

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  • Spirited Steed

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  • Tooth and Claw

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xiphumor

Explorer
I’d love to make spellcaster archetypes with limited maneuvers capabilities, similar to how the Wildborn Ranger has limited spellcasting. In particular, the Druid and the Warlock stand out to me as well-suited to have such archetypes. Besides, A5e needs its own take on the old Warlock classic, the Hexblade!

It seems that each archetype should have no more than three traditions. Druids clearly need Tooth and Claw, and then probably Spirited Steed and Rapid Current. However, I’m a little less clear on which three traditions are the most Warlock-esque, and I’d like to poll the crowd.
 

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WarDriveWorley

Adventurer
Given the fact Hexblades tend to focus one weapon I say Unending Wheel for the weapon mastery aspect, but maybe a 2nd choice from any tradition
 


Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
I picked four.

Mist and Shade, Rapid Current, Tempered Iron, and Unending Wheel.

Mist and Shade both for the reactive strike on Counterspelling and the idea of stealing someone's spell components while they try to cast spells. It also gives them Armor Lock to use against heavily armored Witch Hunters who come after them.

Rapid Current because it can be used to run away or escape from danger, quickly. And as cool as hexblades are, I like my warlocks a little cowardly.

Tempered Iron purely for the antimagic shutdown functions. Very much the "I've turned against my patron and will defeat anything he sends after me"

Unending Wheel for the complete focus on your Pact Weapon/Hexblade itself.
 


xiphumor

Explorer
I’m coming around to the idea that both “War Beast” Druids and Hexblades could be built as Mandatory Tradition + Optional Tradition, with Unending Wheel for Hexblades and Tooth and Claw for War Beasts.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
I’m coming around to the idea that both “War Beast” Druids and Hexblades could be built as Mandatory Tradition + Optional Tradition, with Unending Wheel for Hexblades and Tooth and Claw for War Beasts.
What if there was a Combat Tradition explicitly, specifically, made for Warlocks by it's designer to be a quasi-magic fighting style reliant on dark magics?

441-4417655_shy-face-with-touching-fingers-shy-face-emoji.png
 

xiphumor

Explorer
What if there was a Combat Tradition explicitly, specifically, made for Warlocks by it's designer to be a quasi-magic fighting style reliant on dark magics?
That would be very cool, although my biggest issue is that I want to take a stab at designing this archetype, and I didn't design the a5e Warlock :p

If that was going to be the case, I would still want Warlocks to have access to at least one other tradition for the sake of versatility. Yet at the same time, it would feel kind of odd to give an archetype its own tradition with no other way to access it other than taking this one archetype. I think I would rather have the archetype features interact with the maneuvers in unique ways that give them that dark magic vibe. The O5e Arcane Trickster's bonuses to Mage Hand are a fun example going in the opposite direction.
 
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Anselm

Adventurer
That would be very cool, although my biggest issue is that I want to take a stab at designing this archetype, and I didn't design the a5e Warlock :p

If that was going to be the case, I would still want Warlocks to have access to at least one other tradition for the sake of versatility. Yet at the same time, it would feel kind of odd to give an archetype its own tradition with no other way to access it other than taking this one archetype. I think I would rather have the archetype features interact with the maneuvers in unique ways that give them that dark magic vibe. The O5e Arcane Trickster's bonuses to Mage Hand are a fun example going in the opposite direction.
There's no reason no other class could access it. If a new maneuver tradition is ever published, it would just need to say which classes add it to their list. That said, I still get your goal of making an archetype do cool things with existing traditions.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
There's no reason no other class could access it. If a new maneuver tradition is ever published, it would just need to say which classes add it to their list. That said, I still get your goal of making an archetype do cool things with existing traditions.
There'd probably also be other ways to access such a rare and interesting combat tradition...

Like maybe a secret order of cultists who guard dark magic relics from crusading paladins bent on destroying dark magic.

Or tomes of forbidden martial techniques those same paladins might seek to burn...
 

WarDriveWorley

Adventurer
There'd probably also be other ways to access such a rare and interesting combat tradition...

Like maybe a secret order of cultists who guard dark magic relics from crusading paladins bent on destroying dark magic.

Or tomes of forbidden martial techniques those same paladins might seek to burn...
I had an interesting idea about a character that could channel spirits for combat knowledge. They can change the spirit of choice each day. Each spirit gives it's own knowledge of combat maneuvers. Almost like a martial oracle or similar.
 



Faolyn

(she/her)
I had an interesting idea about a character that could channel spirits for combat knowledge. They can change the spirit of choice each day. Each spirit gives it's own knowledge of combat maneuvers. Almost like a martial oracle or similar.
Would that be similar to that class with the vestiges from 3e? But more martial?
 

WarDriveWorley

Adventurer
Would that be similar to that class with the vestiges from 3e? But more martial?
The Binder? Yeah. I think there's a lot of overlap with it. I also think it would work well on the Warlock chassis. Maybe the patron is a power that gives access to the souls of dead heroes.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
I would think the only problem is that it would, well, involve a lot of different combinations of possible maneuvers and would involve a lot of looking the maneuvers up or would involve comparing a lot of different spirits. I can see that slowing the game down quite a bit.

So perhaps create a new variety of Invocations, which are "bound spirit" Invocations, and this not!Binder warlock can choose from them. If they all have a specific tag or prerequisite, then it opens up the possibility of other archetypes also using that same tag/prerequisite.
 

A lot of this discussion has been around using archetypes to give warlocks martial maneuvers, but I think it would be just as effective to have an invocation that provides access to a combat tradition (and more flexible, since you wouldn’t be locked into one archetype if you wanted to single-class a martial maneuver warlock). Just spitballing, I’d run it something along these lines:

Martial Magery
Prerequisites: Pact of the Blade, OR that invocation that gives warlocks proficiency with medium armor and more weapons
You learn a single combat tradition of your choice. You use your warlock levels to determine when you learn new maneuvers and of what degree, following the Herald table. You do not gain exertion, but you may spend spell points in place of exertion.

If playtesting proved this to provide too much for one that invocation, I’d probably break it into one that provides access to 1-3 degree maneuvers and a second that provides access to 4-5.
 

xiphumor

Explorer
I think the Herald table is too generous. I think this needs to be a “1/3 Martial” with maneuvers no higher than 3rd degree, and probably only about 6 or so maneuvers. Warlocks can cast 6th-9th level spells, so their martial prowess needs to be less than Heralds.

Now, I think an invocation which provides individual maneuvers wouldn’t be horrible, along with a little bit of a boost like maybe an extra exertion point.
 

I think the Herald table is too generous. I think this needs to be a “1/3 Martial” with maneuvers no higher than 3rd degree, and probably only about 6 or so maneuvers. Warlocks can cast 6th-9th level spells, so their martial prowess needs to be less than Heralds.

Now, I think an invocation which provides individual maneuvers wouldn’t be horrible, along with a little bit of a boost like maybe an extra exertion point.
Sounds pretty fair to me. Personally, to keep things simple, if I'm not following the Herald table then I'd follow the Rogue table… which does grant 4th degree maneuvers, but late, and no 5th degree.
 


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