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<blockquote data-quote="Firebeetle" data-source="post: 5465478" data-attributes="member: 34506">I don't know how anyone could choose anything by 4e here. Especially if you compare D&amp;D with other role playing games. :Since D&amp;D was created, as the initial RPG, it has been playing catch up. 2nd edition was definitely too little, too late. GURPS, Champions, ICE, were far more complex. Small publisher RPGs were more complex.3rd edition was a larger change, but this was simply bringing D&amp;D up to speed. There were still many holdovers to the old system, like hit dice, rolling stats, creating magic items, vancian magic, a player's handbook with a majority page count about magic spells. 4th edition is the first time a D&amp;D edition reaches past the competition and innovates into the future. No hit diceNo rolling attributesNo penalties for attributes in raceEach class has a roughly equal place in the PHBEach class has a broad range of options Named roles for a party Miniature movement, no more &quot;Rodney King&quot; playing (the players surround and beat up the monster) PC team vs Monster team combatsSkill challengesLevel up magic itemsSaving throws are fundamentally changedDefenses and saving throws are mixed togetherFor me as a DM, it's the first DM friendly editionSchema for making encounters (I can do it on the fly, so cool)Monster making is a simpler ruleset than making PCs (I once spent three hours making a boss that got finished in three rounds with lousy rolls)Monsters stat blocks are designed to be READ!Monsters have a handful of cool things to do. No more looking up spell-like effects and crap.4e is easily the most innovative edition ever. Everything was rethought on a basic level. Love it or hate it (I love it, personally), it's been the greatest game changer ever.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Firebeetle, post: 5465478, member: 34506"] I don't know how anyone could choose anything by 4e here. Especially if you compare D&D with other role playing games. : Since D&D was created, as the initial RPG, it has been playing catch up. 2nd edition was definitely too little, too late. GURPS, Champions, ICE, were far more complex. Small publisher RPGs were more complex. 3rd edition was a larger change, but this was simply bringing D&D up to speed. There were still many holdovers to the old system, like hit dice, rolling stats, creating magic items, vancian magic, a player's handbook with a majority page count about magic spells. 4th edition is the first time a D&D edition reaches past the competition and innovates into the future. No hit dice No rolling attributes No penalties for attributes in race Each class has a roughly equal place in the PHB Each class has a broad range of options Named roles for a party Miniature movement, no more "Rodney King" playing (the players surround and beat up the monster) PC team vs Monster team combats Skill challenges Level up magic items Saving throws are fundamentally changed Defenses and saving throws are mixed together For me as a DM, it's the first DM friendly edition Schema for making encounters (I can do it on the fly, so cool) Monster making is a simpler ruleset than making PCs (I once spent three hours making a boss that got finished in three rounds with lousy rolls) Monsters stat blocks are designed to be READ! Monsters have a handful of cool things to do. No more looking up spell-like effects and crap. 4e is easily the most innovative edition ever. Everything was rethought on a basic level. Love it or hate it (I love it, personally), it's been the greatest game changer ever. [/QUOTE]

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