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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Which edition had the deadliest dragons?*
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 8119911" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>Caveat: Deadliest is defined as when the dragon would typically be expected encountered by a party of appropriate level. I.e., you wouldn't be comparing raw #s against each other across the board, as that wouldn't be an accurate comparison. For example, a 1e dragon would look weak compared to a 3e or 4e, but when you compare it to how it does against a typical level 1e party, then it becomes more apparent.</p><p></p><p>Early dragons (1e/B/X): they might look weaker by the numbers, but so were the characters. And they were encountered at much lower levels. A 9th level party could expect to see an ancient red dragon. Breath weapons were 3x a day (so you could do 3 rounds in a row), and they did the dragon's hp in damage. So that ancient red dragon would do 88 points on a failed save, 44 on a made one, each round for 3 rounds. For reference, a 9th level fighter with 16 CON would have 60ish HP, a 9th level MU would have the low 20s in HP.</p><p></p><p>2e: The numbers were beefed up for these dragons, but so was the party level when they expected to fight them. An ancient red in 1e was 11 HD while in 2e it was around 20 HD. Breath weapon was once every 3 rounds, so they couldn't do 3 rounds in a row, but could do it more than 3x a day.</p><p></p><p>3e: Here's where we really see the numbers bloat. While dragons always had spells, this edition really turned this to 11. I don't even remotely know how all those numbers (+78 to hit with grapple, really?) would compare against an equal level party. Gonna let a 3e fan do the math here. Can a dragon wipe out an entire party with one breath weapon like in 1e? No idea.</p><p></p><p>4e: Similar to 3e, but could do breath weapon every 1d4 rounds IIRC. I don't play 4e so I have no idea how that compares. did they lose their spell casting ability as well?</p><p></p><p>5e: Seems to have toned down dragon lethality a lot. No more spells like before, but now have legendary actions and legendary resistance. does that make up for the difference? In my play experience, no. They seem way easier than in previous editions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 8119911, member: 15700"] Caveat: Deadliest is defined as when the dragon would typically be expected encountered by a party of appropriate level. I.e., you wouldn't be comparing raw #s against each other across the board, as that wouldn't be an accurate comparison. For example, a 1e dragon would look weak compared to a 3e or 4e, but when you compare it to how it does against a typical level 1e party, then it becomes more apparent. Early dragons (1e/B/X): they might look weaker by the numbers, but so were the characters. And they were encountered at much lower levels. A 9th level party could expect to see an ancient red dragon. Breath weapons were 3x a day (so you could do 3 rounds in a row), and they did the dragon's hp in damage. So that ancient red dragon would do 88 points on a failed save, 44 on a made one, each round for 3 rounds. For reference, a 9th level fighter with 16 CON would have 60ish HP, a 9th level MU would have the low 20s in HP. 2e: The numbers were beefed up for these dragons, but so was the party level when they expected to fight them. An ancient red in 1e was 11 HD while in 2e it was around 20 HD. Breath weapon was once every 3 rounds, so they couldn't do 3 rounds in a row, but could do it more than 3x a day. 3e: Here's where we really see the numbers bloat. While dragons always had spells, this edition really turned this to 11. I don't even remotely know how all those numbers (+78 to hit with grapple, really?) would compare against an equal level party. Gonna let a 3e fan do the math here. Can a dragon wipe out an entire party with one breath weapon like in 1e? No idea. 4e: Similar to 3e, but could do breath weapon every 1d4 rounds IIRC. I don't play 4e so I have no idea how that compares. did they lose their spell casting ability as well? 5e: Seems to have toned down dragon lethality a lot. No more spells like before, but now have legendary actions and legendary resistance. does that make up for the difference? In my play experience, no. They seem way easier than in previous editions. [/QUOTE]
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Which edition had the deadliest dragons?*
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