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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5250885" data-attributes="member: 18280">Nah.Either the complaining gamers are justified in their complaints, because they believe that the edition was a wasted opportunity that could have been so much more constructive.....and we are justified in our comments about their comments.....OR they are not.&nbsp; In which case, we are not, either.&quot;Our complaints about their complaints are more rational/better than their complaints about X that we like&quot; is a non-starter.&nbsp; And should be obviously so.And it should be obvious by now that there is a contingent of folks who believe (regardless of what you or I, or all of EN World, might believe) that 4e dilutes the meaning of the term &quot;D&amp;D&quot;.....effectively that 4e &quot;tears down the meaning of Dungeons &amp; Dragons&quot; regardless of whether or not it builds up another game -- good as it may be -- that would be better identified under another name.The point is, your commentary only makes sense if your POV is somehow &quot;right&quot; and the other is somehow &quot;wrong&quot;.&nbsp; It is, AFAICT, effectively no different than the complaints it is levelled against.&nbsp; Seemingly clever, but also seems to miss the point.EDIT: And, to stave off the obvious response:&nbsp; Yes, WotC owns the brand identity, and has the right to do whatever they wish with it.&nbsp; However, WotC's rights to that brand identity do not trump individual rights to free speech.&nbsp; The right to complain about what is done with brand identity is a more fundamental right than is the right to brand identity.&nbsp; IMHO, anyway.&nbsp; Free speech trumps corporate interests, every time.&nbsp; RC-</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5250885, member: 18280"] Nah. Either the complaining gamers are justified in their complaints, because they believe that the edition was a wasted opportunity that could have been so much more constructive.....and we are justified in our comments about their comments.....OR they are not. In which case, we are not, either. "Our complaints about their complaints are more rational/better than their complaints about X that we like" is a non-starter. And should be obviously so. And it should be obvious by now that there is a contingent of folks who believe (regardless of what you or I, or all of EN World, might believe) that 4e dilutes the meaning of the term "D&D".....effectively that 4e "tears down the meaning of Dungeons & Dragons" regardless of whether or not it builds up another game -- good as it may be -- that would be better identified under another name. The point is, your commentary only makes sense if your POV is somehow "right" and the other is somehow "wrong". It is, AFAICT, effectively no different than the complaints it is levelled against. Seemingly clever, but also seems to miss the point. EDIT: And, to stave off the obvious response: Yes, WotC owns the brand identity, and has the right to do whatever they wish with it. However, WotC's rights to that brand identity do not trump individual rights to free speech. The right to complain about what is done with brand identity is a more fundamental right than is the right to brand identity. IMHO, anyway. Free speech trumps corporate interests, every time. RC - [/QUOTE]

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