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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Which fantasy TRPGs do you think truly reflect the characteristics of firearms as Game Changers?
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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9486540" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>AC simply is a horrid mechanic as implemented in the D&D/d20 lines...</p><p></p><p><strong>Real world: </strong>Armor works by spreading the impact area so the force doesn't result in crossing the tissue damage thresholds (bruising, muscle disruption, bone fracture, bone cleaving.) </p><p></p><p>It does not make it less likely you will get hit. It can make a hit do strange disruptions...</p><p></p><p>The reason firearms are more dangerous is the concentration of force. A Karateka can get between 150 and 400 joules on a 4×8 to 5×10 cm area, so 50 J/cm² to 4 J/cm²... while a .357 runs around 1000 J over an area about 0.646 cm², around 1549 J/cm²... Even a 0.50 cal musket ball is more energy per unit area than the best fists... </p><p>But melee weapons can get to the same energy densities as small to mid caliber small arms, especially the late medieval ones. </p><p>And Bows can do the same or higher energy densities... </p><p>What bows need, however, is lots of practice to be good. A longbow can deliver a lot of energy, but how much varies by the longbow and the longbowman... a bodkin can get initial contact down to areas under 0.05cm², and up to 300 J...</p><p>The Crossbow ended the reign of the longbow- easier to learn, easier to practice, and heavier draws which combine with bodkin points to basically ignore chain, and on square hits, punch through plate.</p><p>The firearm was lesser than the crossbow until the flintlock made rifles and pistols fairly reliable...</p><p></p><p>The other element about real armor is that, for smooth surface rigid and semi-rigid armors, there's a chance of deflection.</p><p></p><p>GURPS takes into account both spreading the contact (via DR) and deflection (PD), but doesn't differentiate for the contact patch variation...</p><p></p><p>Palladium gets armor about as well as GURPS, but in different ways; it's two factors are AR (a measure of coverage) and SDC (a measure of durability - hits stopped by the armor damage it)... but it ignores the deflection chance and the spread factor.</p><p></p><p>Realistically, armor should be a divisor of damage, and a deflection chance, but that's going to annoy the math averse...</p><p></p><p>Borrowing Palladium's mode, but having a limit stopped per hit would seem to be the best overall compromise...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 9486540, member: 6779310"] AC simply is a horrid mechanic as implemented in the D&D/d20 lines... [B]Real world: [/B]Armor works by spreading the impact area so the force doesn't result in crossing the tissue damage thresholds (bruising, muscle disruption, bone fracture, bone cleaving.) It does not make it less likely you will get hit. It can make a hit do strange disruptions... The reason firearms are more dangerous is the concentration of force. A Karateka can get between 150 and 400 joules on a 4×8 to 5×10 cm area, so 50 J/cm² to 4 J/cm²... while a .357 runs around 1000 J over an area about 0.646 cm², around 1549 J/cm²... Even a 0.50 cal musket ball is more energy per unit area than the best fists... But melee weapons can get to the same energy densities as small to mid caliber small arms, especially the late medieval ones. And Bows can do the same or higher energy densities... What bows need, however, is lots of practice to be good. A longbow can deliver a lot of energy, but how much varies by the longbow and the longbowman... a bodkin can get initial contact down to areas under 0.05cm², and up to 300 J... The Crossbow ended the reign of the longbow- easier to learn, easier to practice, and heavier draws which combine with bodkin points to basically ignore chain, and on square hits, punch through plate. The firearm was lesser than the crossbow until the flintlock made rifles and pistols fairly reliable... The other element about real armor is that, for smooth surface rigid and semi-rigid armors, there's a chance of deflection. GURPS takes into account both spreading the contact (via DR) and deflection (PD), but doesn't differentiate for the contact patch variation... Palladium gets armor about as well as GURPS, but in different ways; it's two factors are AR (a measure of coverage) and SDC (a measure of durability - hits stopped by the armor damage it)... but it ignores the deflection chance and the spread factor. Realistically, armor should be a divisor of damage, and a deflection chance, but that's going to annoy the math averse... Borrowing Palladium's mode, but having a limit stopped per hit would seem to be the best overall compromise... [/QUOTE]
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Which fantasy TRPGs do you think truly reflect the characteristics of firearms as Game Changers?
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