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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ppaladin123" data-source="post: 4973746" data-attributes="member: 60923">What we can certainly do is look at monster defenses versus players' "to hit" bonuses and see if they keep pace. Without the expertise feats, players actually do lose about three points of hit bonus relative to monsters' defenses over the course of thirty level. You go from a 50-60% chance to hit with any given power to a 35-40% chance.Your opinion of this change determines whether you view this as a feat tax or just a really nice bonus. I've seen some people argue that epic level monsters should be harder to hit and thus this is not a bug but a feature. Others think that there should be a constant base-line probability to hit a monster of approximately one's level throughout each tier.To complicate things, as a party progresses to epic tier they gain access to a variety of magic items, utility powers, and special attacks that grant free rerolls, large bonuses to hit, powerful effects regardless of a hit, and so forth. It may be the case that an epic tier party hits monsters more often than a heroic or paragon tier party (despite the -3 lost due to scaling) because of the particular set of abilities and items they carry. (meta-problem #1, if you can't fit in the feat you might have to devote a few item slots to mechanically powerful but boring equipment).On top of that some classes have abilities or powers that offer unlimited scaling based on ability modifiers. Warlords are notorious for this; what starts off as an ability to grant a small bonus to (e.g. +2) becomes the ability to essentially guarantee a hit (i.e. +10). If your party has many such powers you may not notice a dip in hit percentage. I've heard people argue that without the expertise feats (or a houseruled hit bonus), each party needs a tactical warlord to remain viable at epic levels. (meta-problem #2...or you could devote one party slot to a warlord)My group gives weapon/implement expertise free to everyone (houserule). In my experience, those extra points count. 4e monsters are often huge piles of hit points attached to low damage abilities. Combats are not more deadly or exciting when players miss; they are just longer and grindier.</blockquote>

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