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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Caliburn101" data-source="post: 7093539" data-attributes="member: 6802178">The Greyhawk they go with should be a reboot of the post Emridy-Meadows period of the Red Box.This fits in with the dungeons in Yawning Portal don't forget, and extricates the setting from the conflated and complex FtA onwards.The 2nd Edition material could be mined for all the fluff one would need to do this, and if the history section was more inclusive (include such lesser-treatise elements as Ashardalon, Vecna's Empire, Sulm, The Rhenee and Aerdy for instance) all put in one book (or Red Boxed Set!!) would create a great campaign launch point.Greyhawk IS more morally ambiguous than FR - I know some people think that's not right, but take it from an old hand, it is. In essence it is 'Chronicles of the Black Company+Lord of the Rings+Game of Thrones' rather than the 'Willow+Guardians of the Galaxy+The Belgariad' of Forgotten Realms.In Forgotten Realms, you are thrown into a series of fantasy pulp fiction events with little integration except for location and setting. It's episodic by nature, and threats pop up almost in a whack-a-mole fashion. Your character is a player in the production, but not the lead - most frequently only having a reactive hand in getting history back on the course the real power-brokers of the world want to see it on; there are too many in-your-face Gods and overarching mega-power NPCs to do otherwise unless you want to run your game deep into Epic Levels. Forgotten Realms fits in with a style of game where you don't have to think too hard about what you are going to take on, where the next adventure comes to you in a linear fashion, and which faction you are going to hitch your horse to is a simple choice. The threat from the Giants is to do with the Giants. The threat from the Cult of the Dragon is from Tiamat, etc. All of these threats, though powerful, are parochial-scale campaign arcs, which will only ever threaten significant change over a part of the Realms. The Realms are in effect, 'Too Big To Fail'. It is no coincidence that potentially the most world-impacting threat (if not dealt with by the PCs that is...) in 5th Edition to the FR is Elemental Evil - stolen in spirit at least from Greyhawk.In contrast, with Greyhawk many challenges come from the deeper history of the setting and the repeated failure over time to eradicate it's various evils decisively. You may thwart an evil, but you rarely if ever defeat it. Even the most storied NPCs of the world are not invulnerable, and in power terms they are more accessible to a normal campaign power range - from Kings to Archmagi. Challenges can come from the various shades of grey all around you, from the haughty non-interventionist Celene to the grimy influence peddling of Greyhawk City. In navigating this, the world is set up to let your characters change history entirely in any way they can envisage and then make happen. In Greyhawk, like Call of Cthulhu, you need to pick and choose both your enemies and your friends more carefully, and both can turn on you in unexpected ways. Classically for instance the threat from the Giants is the Giants, isn't it? Oh no, it's the Kua Toa or something to do with the Underdark, ahhhh, not quite, it's the Drow.... who are being driven by Lloth, who, WTF, is into extending her vast fascist web of slavery over countless worlds... The Tomb of Horrors is just a nasty dungeon isn't it... oh no it's a soul sucking facility that will eventually allow Acererak to become one with the Negative Energy Plane and dominate the Multiverse as an unkillable undead overgod... oh and let's not forget that his boss Vecna nearly unmade the entire universe from a building in Sigil... THESE story arcs are a Bablyon 5 Shadows level of game-changer.Forgotten Realms is comfortable, and it's 'inside the box'. A TPK, if it happens ends one story and starts another no matter what. Many of the most recognisable names from FR are the powerful NPCs who you will likely never do more than influence somewhat.Greyhawk may have originally come out of a box, but it doesn't not stay safely inside it... a TPK can end the universe. Many of the most recognisable names from GH are most of the artefacts in the DMG - and YOUR character can end up wielding any of them.FR is 'do this task and everything will be well, hero of the hour...'.GH is 'take the world by the throat and make it give you what you desire'.</blockquote>

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