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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1165359" data-attributes="member: 2011">Actually, it is not a push at second level. If you look at my analysis earlier in this thread, an extra +1 from Dex is still more advantage than an extra +1 from Con at second level.Although I have not done an actual analysis beyond that, I would guess (and granted, this is only a guess) that it isn't until about 5th level or so where Dex and Con push.The reason for this is that in order to push, the chances of getting hit has to decrease to the point where one hit point per level overcomes the damage not taken if you have the extra point of Dex (for an entire combat).The break even point for that is determined by 4 things: the average to hit of opponents at the break even level, the average damage of opponents at the break even level, the hit points of the Barbarian (assume average) at that level, and the AC of the Barbarian at that level. This will determine how many attacks the Barbarian can survive on average. When having the +1 AC from DEX results in the same number of rounds as having the +1 hit point per level from CON, you have reached the break even point.This is more difficult to analyze than first or second level due to the increased number of variables, but here is a rough guess on my part:The barbarian will gain +1 AC per two levels either due to superior armor or magic items.His opponents will gain +1 BAB per level (assuming combatant types, even monsters) and +1 damage per two levels.Making these assumptions and comparing with the example (that I posted earlier in this thread) of the Barbarian having AC 16 at first level with his opponents having +3 to hit on average and D8+2 damage, they hit 40% of the time for 6.5 points of damage. So, his 14 hit points (16 hit points AC 14 with Rage) will last 5.4 (non-raging) to 4.9 (raging) attacks on average. If he takes the extra Dex, he will have AC 17 and 13 hit points, they hit 35% of the time for 6.5 points of damage. So, his 13 hit points (15 hit points AC 15 with Rage) will last 5.7 (non-raging) to 5.1 (raging) attacks on average.With the assumptions above, the number of rounds for which the Barbarian will stay standing for these two cases at each level are:Level 2 Con: 8.65 (non-raging) to 8.15 (raging)Level 2 Dex: 9.0 (non-raging) to 8.4 (raging)Level 3 Con: 9.2 (non-raging) to 9.0 (raging)Level 3 Dex: 9.3 (non-raging) to 9.1 (raging)Level 4 Con: 11.7 (non-raging) to 11.5 (raging)Level 4 Dex: 11.8 (non-raging) to 11.6 (raging)Level 5 Con: 11.3 (non-raging) to 11.4 (raging)Level 5 Dex: 11.2 (non-raging) to 11.3 (raging)Level 6 Con: 13.3 (non-raging) to 13.4 (raging)Level 6 Dex: 13.2 (non-raging) to 13.4 (raging)Level 7 Con: 12.4 (non-raging) to 12.8 (raging)Level 7 Dex: 12.2 (non-raging) to 12.6 (raging)Given these assumptions, the advantage shifts slightly over to CON from DEX at level 5 and is solidly there by level 7.And granted, there are a lot of variables here. If, for example, the Barbarian manages to acquire extremely good AC at a low level (e.g. a +2 Ring of Protection or magical armor), than these levels are pushed back even further.On the other hand, if the DM starts throwing extremely powerful opponents with good to hits (more important than damage in this discussion unless we are talking really serious damage), then these levels drop down.It is all dependent. But basically, it will typically be at least fourth or fifth level before CON catches up to DEX assuming that BAB outweighs AC by a factor of one per two levels. If it doesn't, the levels push back more. YMMV.In the long term, there is no doubt that CON is better.  And, this analysis did not take into account comparing numbers where the delta is great than +1. For example, if you compare 16 CON / 12 DEX with 12 CON / 16 DEX, the numbers would come out somewhat different.</blockquote>

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