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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wraith-Hunter" data-source="post: 3301549" data-attributes="member: 48298">This is definitly a good point and much depends on your game, like everything else. That is a given. In some games it is not even worth it to take item creation feats, as the chars have no time.But the argument remains. Wizards have options available: scribe scroll, bonus feats for other craft feats like wands, that sorcerors miss out on. If chosen wisely (spell and @ casting level) some well chosen spells on scrolls can give the wizard alot of flexability. You also have bonus feats and it would be easier to take the quick draw feat as you have more feats to play with. There are scroll cases bandoliers and magic items that help with the organization of scrolls/extra equipment.I think when it comes down to it when 3.x was still new the impression was that spont. casting was WAY more powerfull than prepared casting, and to 'balance' this the sorcerors were made weaker than the wizard to compensate. Spont casting is great don't get me wrong, but it is not THAT great. Not so good that it justifies not getting anything besides spells for class abilities.Also when was the last time that WotC knew anything about optimizing a character at ALL? A poorly played/optimized sorceror rocks compared to a poorly played/optimized/prepared wizard. The original push of the sorceror class seems like it was meant to be what the Warmage is NOW, but the game mechanics don't work for in that role as well. Heck WotC can't even figure out the game mechanics for sample characters. How many sample char in WotC books have feats or spells they can't use, or skills in non-class skills as class skills or vice versa, or come with equipment they can't use. Etc. Seems like they can't get the basics right. Plus when the class was first made the design criteria is much different than it is now. All the new base classes have a different criteria for design than the original core classes did. I think if the sorceror was designed from scratch now, that it would be a different beast entirely.From a Dm perspective I would want a class that was substantially different than the wizard.1. Different skill list and more points. Make the list reflect what they could learn with all the free time they don't spend reading dusty old tomes.2. Up the hit die to a d6. They are not nerds the d4 wizards hit die comes from spending all his time reading books being unatheltic etc. Sorcerors don't have to spend this time.3. Create some class abilities to entice players to stay with the class for the whole time, so that there is a reason not to take a PrC. 4. Give them enshew materials for free and have a formula to convert expensive gp components to XP costs, to keep the flavor different, on spells with $$ material components.5. Have sorc and wiz take a -2 penalty to identify spells cast by the diff classes. They do it different.As a player I would like something more than what the core class offers. More and better skills as Int is generally not as important to a sorc as Con/Dex. More points and some party face class skills would be nice. Also I would like some class features to encourage me to stay in the class. Not all PrC's are interesting or fit with a concept I may have, or they might be really cool, but the feat or skill requirements make it really difficult to get into. Especially if the feat requirements are useless, and are only there as a price for admission. Sorc are feat starved as it is. Wasting feats really sucks. This favors wizards again as they have more feats to spare. As a player and DM I don't have a problem with the delayed progression. I normally play wizards. I really want to love sorcerors though. I am playing one in a new game as I want to try something different and I don't want the hassle of having to guess what spells to prepare every day. When it comes down to it the game is has changed since the sorc first came out. The wizard has had some power creap that puts it even farther ahead with suppliment books. And the design philosophy of classes has changed as well. With all this I think it makes the sorc weaker in comparision. I also don't think most people play them the way WotC originally intended them to be played. I think the Warmage is more like that. Whatever advantages spont casting has I think the balance factor is in the limited number of known spells NOT class features. It is not so powerfull as to give a reason to eliminate class features.</blockquote>

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