Which level has the best balance?

[Ry]

At what level do you think that all the core classes are balanced best against each other?

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

At what level do you think that all the core classes are balanced best against each other?

What, you got something against odd numbered levels?!

 

[Ry]

I didn't want to throw everything in, so I picked the first 5, feats, and 10, 15, 20. =)

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

I just wanted 7. I've always liked level 7, since you're powerful, but you're not crazy powerful. You get some good monsters, but not crazy monsters. Casters have good spells, but not crazy spells.

Now I sound like Dickens...

 

[Ry]

Well, to that I say that anyone who wants to vote seven can say so in the body of the thread, with the goal, of course, of winning the internet.

 

[Darklone]

Last poll said level 8.

 

[Quartz]

I like levels 10-15, with spellcasters having 5th level spells max plus levels in other classes.

 

[Caliban]

They aren't balanced against each other, as a group they are theoretically balanced against CR appropriate opponents.

(Of course, some classes are better against certain opponents, and some creatures are under CR'd, and some feat/spell combinations are better in some situations, etc., etc. etc.)

 

[Nifft]

Did we already do a poll like "Balance begins at ... " and then a companion poll "Balance ends around ..." ?

Thanks, -- N

 

[Ry]

They aren't balanced against each other, as a group they are theoretically balanced against CR appropriate opponents.

(Of course, some classes are better against certain opponents, and some creatures are under CR'd, and some feat/spell combinations are better in some situations, etc., etc. etc.)

Consider where the players' attention is directed during the game. Imagine a situation where that focus in the game stops on the same PC very often, or that the events while focusing on a particular PC are markedly more important because of its power level. If this holds across multiple situations that fall under the core design gameplay, and recurs regardless of which player is controlling which character, then I think we can say that the game is poorly balanced among the players, not just in reference to the challenges the DM brings out.

This might not be the be-all end-all definition of balance, but I certainly think that alongside the DM challenge-assignment criteria you bring up, these concepts were definitely in play when the designers were crafting 3e.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the discussion of class balance is a reasonable one, even if it presents difficulties when we discuss it in lieu of massive playtesting.