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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8587096" data-attributes="member: 20564">Correct.&nbsp; We are talking about casters, and you are trying to limit it just to wizards to say it's the DM's fault.&nbsp; I was showing other examples.Umm, what?&nbsp; We're explicitly talking all editions of D&amp;D except 4e.&nbsp; That's what the OP asked about.&nbsp; We've given examples from different editions.What I was pointing out was that those rules have been already well played and these trhings have been determined.&nbsp; It's like saying &quot;well, people have been analyzing the moon for years, but that's folk wisdom and memes and nothing compared to my assertion that it's made of green cheese.You were doing well up to that point, which is absolutely false.&nbsp; Spells could be copied off scrolls, which are randomly generated as part of treasure.&nbsp; Following the rules, there's no DM fiat at all, it's random generation.Umm, still no.&nbsp; You are asserting that random creation of spells could never create a quadratic wizard, which should be obviously false.&nbsp; You also are asserting that DMs were failing by providing a play style where wizards had at least a spell of each level they could cast (since there was no upcasting), which is pretty much the minimum for fun to play a wizard.&nbsp; Providing the minimum for fun is not a broken playstyle that the DM should avoid.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 8587096, member: 20564"] Correct. We are talking about casters, and you are trying to limit it just to wizards to say it's the DM's fault. I was showing other examples. Umm, what? We're explicitly talking all editions of D&D except 4e. That's what the OP asked about. We've given examples from different editions. What I was pointing out was that those rules have been already well played and these trhings have been determined. It's like saying "well, people have been analyzing the moon for years, but that's folk wisdom and memes and nothing compared to my assertion that it's made of green cheese. You were doing well up to that point, which is absolutely false. Spells could be copied off scrolls, which are randomly generated as part of treasure. Following the rules, there's no DM fiat at all, it's random generation. Umm, still no. You are asserting that random creation of spells could never create a quadratic wizard, which should be obviously false. You also are asserting that DMs were failing by providing a play style where wizards had at least a spell of each level they could cast (since there was no upcasting), which is pretty much the minimum for [I]fun[/I] to play a wizard. Providing the minimum for fun is not a broken playstyle that the DM should avoid. [/QUOTE]

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