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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 2306021" data-attributes="member: 307">Actually, it's more like 1,770 XP. You are splitting crafting duties with your cohort, and his experience points, by the rules, are essentially free.High level characters are hard to surpirse with invisible opponents. There are so many counters and skills that work to defeat them that it becomes a much less useful tactic at that point.Because I have a wider array of Item Crafting feats to use to make items, and thus I can get the "I crafted the item and it cost less" benefit on a higher percentage of the equipment I use. Keep up here.Plus, despite your yelping, you don't really need a lot of bonuses to get your cohort to have more than enough ability to survive combat. Compare two actual characters (not the various hypotheticals that just amount to your saying "but I can have this, and this, and spend 30,000 gp on that", and so on). Two characters, both 12th level (since you seem to like that level), standard elite array of stats:Wizard 12: S 8, I 18 (15 + 3 points for level), W 10, D 13, C 12, Ch 14 (so I can have a good cohort). 4 available feat slots, plus 2 wizard bonus feat slots.Hit points 43.5 (average), Fort +5, Reflex +5, Will +8Wiz 3, Clr 3, MT 6: S 8, I 16 (15 + 1 point for level), W 16 (14 + 2 points for level), D 13, C 12, Ch 10 (note that the lower Charisma hampers his turning abilitiy, but to change it, you would have to give up Dex or Con, save bonuses and/or hit points). 4 available feat slots.Hit points 51.5 (average), Fort +7, Reflex +5, Will +14The MT is a lot better at Will saves, but not much better off in Fortitude saves, and exactly equal in Reflex saves (which most AoEs are). Now, the straight wizard, having a couple "extra" feats from being a wizard, uses one of his regular feats on Leadership, getting himself a cleric cohort:Cleric 10, S 13, I 8, W 17 (15 + 2 points for level), D 10, C 14, Ch 12. 3 available feat slots.His poitns 68.5 (average), Fort +9, Reflex +3, Will +10Now, I thought you said I'd have trouble keeping the cohort alive. He has more hit points on average than either PC, and his unenhanced saves compare very favorably. Note also, that the wizard has a higher save DC for all his spells, while the cohort's save DCs are exactly equal to the MT's. The MT is a lower caster level than the cohort too. The MT is still coming out behind. Between the PC and his cohort, I've spent one feat out of a total of 9, while the MT has four. I can blow a couple feats on save enhancing feats. Let's give the cohort Lightning Reflexes, to bring his Reflex save up to +5.Now, let's talk about magic items. Both PCs should have 88,000 gp at their disposal. You keep wanting to blow money on orange ioun stones, and metamagic rods of quicken. Well, the orange ioun stone costs 30,000 gp, and a lesser metamagic rod of quicken costs 35,000 gp, so you've eaten up most of your money there (leaving you with 23,000 gp). You can buy a cloak of resistance +4 for 16,000 gp, leaving you 7,000 gp. Your saves end up looking like this: Fort +11, Reflex +9, Will +18. Pretty nifty.The wizard and his cohort, on the other hand, get some items too. Both get cloaks of reistance +4, for 32,000 gp, Leaving the wizard with 51,00 gp in items to spend. Now their saves end up like this:Wizard: Fort +9 Reflex +9, Will +12Cleric Cohort: Fort +13, Reflex +9, Will +14Except for the disparity in the Will saves, there are in the same range as one another. Given that the cohoirt has more than 15 more hit points than the MT, I'm thinking his suriviability isn't a problem. Plus, the wizard and his cleric firend have 51,000 gp left to spend, and the MT only has 7,000. Granted, his caster level is now equal to the cohort, but he still lags two behind the wizard. And while the MT can cast two spells in a round three times per day (and one of them has to be a 3rd level or lower spell), the wizard and his cohort can accomplish much the same thing to the extent that they have spell slots.The MT could get a stat enhancing item or two, but he's probably going to want to buy some defense instead, like bracers of armor, and maybe an amulet of natural armor (which, by the way, he wouldn't be able to wear with a periapt of wisdom), and that will consume most of his available cash. The wizard buys relatively cheap nonmagical armor for his cohort and equips himself with some bracers an amulet, and still has thousands of gold pieces left to buy himself a headband of intellect and his cohort a periapt of wisdom, jacking up their save DCs even more compared to the MT, and giving them more bonus spells to boot.And this all leaves aside, for a moment, the fact that the cohort, when recruited, arrives with gear appropriate to his level (see the text of the discussion on leadership in the DMG, or the SRD if you prefer), meaning that you don't have to do the intiial equipping of the cohort out the the wizard's funds. Yet another portion of your argument collapses when subjected to the light of day.I also note than the wizard + cohort combination has it all over the MT in terms of sundry abiilities too. The cohort turns as a 10th level cleric, four times per day, and his Charisma adds to his ability. The MT turns as a 3rd level cleric, twice per day, and his Charisma serves as a penalty to his ability. He also has a familiar with the abilities of a 3rd level wizard, which likely severely hampers his familar's survivability (he's probably better off without one at that point). The straight wizard has a familiar with the special abilities of a companion to a 12th level character (for what those are worth).Oh, the wizard and his cohort have 13 more skill points between them than the MT has.The wizard/cohort combo is pretty much way ahead overall. And I haven't crafted a single thing. In the face of reality, your argument crumbles like the houe of cards it is.I see you haven't played out many high level combats. High level combat tends to be over fast, in a handful of rounds. Being outclassed by three top level spells is a huge deal.Because no one has said that the MT doesn't have a lot of lower level spells. It's just that, over the course of a day (especially at higher levels) you usually end up with many more spell slots than you can use anyway, so having a pile of 1st level spells isn't that big a deal most of the time, since a high proportion of them will simply go uncast.The MT has 5 4th level spells. The wizard/cohort have 8. The MT has 6 3rd level spells. The wizard/cohort have 8. Too bad your argument falls apart so easily. In any event, even leaving aside the cohort, I think I'd rather have more 5th and 6th level spells than 3rd and 4th level spells. I would think that was obvious, but with you, I'm not so sure.And the wizard only has to worry about one set of bonus spells per character, meaning he can bump up his single spell casting statistic high and easier than the MT can bump both of his. All things being equal, the wizard/cohort have more bonus spells on average than the MT has. Too bad you didn't actually work out the details before you ran yourself off the rails on that.I'm not sure I have to use anything other than a tone of incredulity when discussing the rules with someone who knows so little about them. Your arguments tear like wet paper towels when subjected to any sort of examination. I'd quit too if I were you, and it became as obvious as it has that you just don't know what you are talking about.</blockquote>

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