Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 2312429" data-attributes="member: 307">The problem overall is that the question isn't "who could win in a head to head battle", because that almost always goes to the guy who wins initiative in a high level spell caster duel, and these match ups are no exception. The question is "who can handle threats to the party better".The question is "how do you deal with a trio of bone devils", and then "followed by a pair of dread wraiths", and then "followed by an adult blue dragon", and then "followed by a 12 headed pyrohydra".The problem with Urge, is that he doesn't have the staying power to keep going through all these challenges. He most likely blows most of his capabilities on the bone devils, and then has to retreat.And all the harping on AC is amusing. An AC of 22, which Urge is trumpeting proudly, is like saying "hit me again and again" at 12th level. A straight up 12th level fighter of fairly modest capabilities (say +12 BAB, +4 Strength bonus, +1 WF, +3 weapon) hits that AC on a 2. He hits with his second attack on a 7, and his third on a 12. If he has a level or two of barbarian, and has a belt of giant strength +4, when he's raging those numbers go to 2/3/8. No wizard based character is going to have anything resembling a worthwhile AC, ever.The comparison works out like this, assuming both pairs are casting spells in combat against CR appropriate foes:Round 1:Urge: 2 5th level spellsWiz-Clr: 1 6th level spell, 1 5th level spellRound 2:Urge: 2 5th level spellsWiz-Clr: 1 6th level spell, 1 5th level spellRound 3:Urge: 2 5th level spellsWiz-Clr: 1 6th level spell, 1 5th level spellRound 4:Urge: 1 4th level spellWiz-Clr: 1 6th level spell, 1 5th level spellRound 5:Urge: 1 4th level spellWiz-Clr: 1 5th level spell, 1 4th level spellFrom the 4th round of combat in a day, at no point does Urge catch up. After the first three rounds of daily combat, the Wiz-Clr always have a spell slot of equal level to the Urge's available, and another one to boot. By the 12th daily round of combat, Urge is down to 1 3rd level spell per round, while Wiz-Clr are casting 1 4th and 1 3rd each round. We could even assume that the maximize rod counts to "raise" his spell slot levels, and give Urge one 8th level slot in each of the first three rounds of combat (the quicken rod doesn't count for that, since it just allows him to match casting two spells in a  round, which doesn't gain him any ground), but he still falls quickly and woefully behind as the day's endeavors wear on.</blockquote>

Verification