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<blockquote data-quote="DungeonMaster" data-source="post: 2314206" data-attributes="member: 27431">Hello brick wall? Are you there? I really enjoy talking to you.&nbsp; It seems like people have lost track of the discussion. The MT is equivalent to a cohort + wizard. The MT is superior to the lone single-classed character. The MT with leadership categorically dwarfs the wizard + cohort. Since the MT's metamagic superiority is not recognized (very very foolish) all I do is can them. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; THE&nbsp;&nbsp; URGE Human Evoker3/Clr3/Urge6 Stats: str 8, dex 12 (10+ 2 gloves), con 15 (13+ 2 iounstone), int 20 (15+1 levels+ 4 headband), wis 20 (14 +2 levels +4 periapt), cha 14 (12+2 iounstone) Hp: 63.5 (8 +2d8+9d4 = 28.5 + 2x12 con) AC: 21 (10 + 1 dex + 5 wis +1 monk + 4 mage armor) Touch AC: 18 Saves: +12/+11/+20( 3/1/3 cleric + 1/1/3 wizard + 2/2/5 MT then + 2 con, +3 dex and weasel + 5 wiz then +3 resistance +1 luck) Skills: the standard, spellcraft, concentration and so forth, not a big deal will be better than the non-MTs by virtue of the stone of good luck alone Feats: Scribe scroll (free), Empower spell (1st), Improved initiative (1st), Craft wondrous item (3rd), Leadership (6th), Spell penetration (9th), Greater Spell penetration (12). Gear: 88000 total8000 Periapt of wisdom +4 (crafted)8000 Headband of intellect +4 (crafted)4500 Cloak of resistance +3 (crafted)15000 Orange ioun stone (crafted)6500 Monk's belt (crafted)4000 Ioun stone +2 Con (crafted)4000 Ioun stone +2 Cha (crafted)2000 Gloves of dexterity +2 (crafted)10000 Luckstone (crafted)-----------------------------62 000 GP total Spells per day: Arcane:1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th4+1/4+1/3+1/2+1/1+1 (+ from specialisation)2/1/1/1/1/1 from int 20Total:7/5/5/4/3Divine:1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th4+1/4+1/3+1/2+1/1+1 (+ from domain)2/1/1/1/1 from wis 207/5/5/4/3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sample Wizard spell book: (2 per level except for 5+2=7 at level 1)1st level: Mage armor, Magic missile, True-strike, Burning hands, Charm person, Ventriloquism2nd level: Scorching ray, Fox's cunning, Mirror image, Gust of wind, Cat's grace3rd level: Fireball, Lightning bolt, Displacement, Stinking cloud4th level: Improved invisibility, Black tentacles, Wall of ice, Wall of fire5th level: Feeblemind, Bigby's interposing hand&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Typical spell selection: DCs are (15+ spell level) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Arcane: (opposition schools necromancy and abjuration)5th: Empowered fireball x2, Feeblemind4th: Improved invisibility, Evard's black tentacles, Wall of ice, Empowered scorching ray3rd: Fireball x2, Lightning bolt x1, Empowered magic missile, Stinking cloud2nd: Scorching ray x3, Mirror image, Gust of wind 1st: Magic missile x4, Mage Armor, True strike, Charm person&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Divine: 5th: Teleport, Spell resistance, True Seeing4th: Dimension door, Death ward, Divine power, Dimensional Anchor3rd: Fly, Seering light, Dispel magic x2, Protection from energy2nd: Aid, Silencex2, Resist energy, Hold person1st: Longstrider, Sanctuary x2, Sheild of faith, Divine favor, Obscuring mist, Command Domains are Travel and Luck, gets to re-roll 1/day a save, attack roll, etc... and freedom of movement 1/dayCohort:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; THE&nbsp;&nbsp; DEMIURGE Dwarven Druid 10 Stats: str 10, dex 10 (12 -2 race), con 16 (14 +2 race), int 13, wis 21 (15 +2 levels +4 periapt), cha 8&nbsp; Hp: 78.5 (8 + 9d8 = 48.5+ 3x10 con) AC: 16 (10 + 5 wis +1 monk) Touch AC: 16 Saves: +12/+7/+14( 7/3/7 druid then + 3 con, +2 feat + 5 wiz then +2 resistance) Skills: the standard, spellcraft, concentration and so forth Feats: Improved initiative (1st), Maximize spell (3rd), Lightning reflexes (6th), Craft rod (9th).25 900 to spend Gear: 88 000 total8000 Periapt of wisdom +4 (crafted)2000 Cloak of resistance +2 (crafted)6500 Monk's belt (crafted)+ animal companion(s)-----------------------------16500 GP totalExtra cash for ... a metamagic rod of maximize! So give it to the Urge. Spells per day: Divine:1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th4/4/4/3/22/2/1/1/1 from wis 226/6/5/4/3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Typical spell selection: DCs are (16+ spell level) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Divine: 5th: Baleful polymorph, Control winds, Animal growth4th: Flamestrike, Rusting grasp, Spike stones, Giant Vermin3rd: Call lightningx2, Poison, Wind wall, Greater magic fang2nd: Barkskin, Delay poison x2, Heat metal, Warp wood, 1st: Pass without trace, Faerie fire, Entangle, Speak with animals, Hide from animals, Detect snares and pits. ADMIT UTTER AND TOTAL DEFEAT IN THE FACE OF THE URGE AND THE DEMIURGE. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> So he brings to the party, well everything he had before - 1 quicken rod and a ring no one cared about. Oh yeah and druidic magic. Oh did I say druidic magic? I think I did. You have a small handful of 6th level spells. And nothing more. Now's the time to go back and read all my posts again.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DungeonMaster, post: 2314206, member: 27431"] Hello brick wall? Are you there? I really enjoy talking to you. It seems like people have lost track of the discussion. The MT is equivalent to a cohort + wizard. The MT is superior to the lone single-classed character. The MT with leadership [i] categorically dwarfs [/i] the wizard + cohort. Since the MT's metamagic superiority is not recognized (very very foolish) all I do is can them. [B] THE URGE [/B] Human Evoker3/Clr3/Urge6 [B] Stats: [/B] str 8, dex 12 (10+ 2 gloves), con 15 (13+ 2 iounstone), int 20 (15+1 levels+ 4 headband), wis 20 (14 +2 levels +4 periapt), cha 14 (12+2 iounstone) [B] Hp: [/B] 63.5 (8 +2d8+9d4 = 28.5 + 2x12 con) [B] AC: [/B] 21 (10 + 1 dex + 5 wis +1 monk + 4 mage armor) [B] Touch AC: [/B] 18 [B] Saves: [/B] +12/+11/+20 ( 3/1/3 cleric + 1/1/3 wizard + 2/2/5 MT then + 2 con, +3 dex and weasel + 5 wiz then +3 resistance +1 luck) [B] Skills: [/B] the standard, spellcraft, concentration and so forth, not a big deal will be better than the non-MTs by virtue of the stone of good luck alone [B] Feats: [/B] Scribe scroll (free), Empower spell (1st), Improved initiative (1st), Craft wondrous item (3rd), Leadership (6th), Spell penetration (9th), Greater Spell penetration (12). [B] Gear: [/B] 88000 total 8000 Periapt of wisdom +4 (crafted) 8000 Headband of intellect +4 (crafted) 4500 Cloak of resistance +3 (crafted) 15000 Orange ioun stone (crafted) 6500 Monk's belt (crafted) 4000 Ioun stone +2 Con (crafted) 4000 Ioun stone +2 Cha (crafted) 2000 Gloves of dexterity +2 (crafted) 10000 Luckstone (crafted) ----------------------------- 62 000 GP total [B] Spells per day: [/B] Arcane: 1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th 4+1/4+1/3+1/2+1/1+1 (+ from specialisation) 2/1/1/1/1/1 from int 20 Total: 7/5/5/4/3 Divine: 1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th 4+1/4+1/3+1/2+1/1+1 (+ from domain) 2/1/1/1/1 from wis 20 7/5/5/4/3 [B] Sample Wizard spell book: [/B] (2 per level except for 5+2=7 at level 1) 1st level: Mage armor, Magic missile, True-strike, Burning hands, Charm person, Ventriloquism 2nd level: Scorching ray, Fox's cunning, Mirror image, Gust of wind, Cat's grace 3rd level: Fireball, Lightning bolt, Displacement, Stinking cloud 4th level: Improved invisibility, Black tentacles, Wall of ice, Wall of fire 5th level: Feeblemind, Bigby's interposing hand [B] Typical spell selection: DCs are (15+ spell level) [/B] [i] Arcane: [/i] (opposition schools necromancy and abjuration) 5th: Empowered fireball x2, Feeblemind 4th: Improved invisibility, Evard's black tentacles, Wall of ice, Empowered scorching ray 3rd: Fireball x2, Lightning bolt x1, Empowered magic missile, Stinking cloud 2nd: Scorching ray x3, Mirror image, Gust of wind 1st: Magic missile x4, Mage Armor, True strike, Charm person [i] Divine: [/i] 5th: Teleport, Spell resistance, True Seeing 4th: Dimension door, Death ward, Divine power, Dimensional Anchor 3rd: Fly, Seering light, Dispel magic x2, Protection from energy 2nd: Aid, Silencex2, Resist energy, Hold person 1st: Longstrider, Sanctuary x2, Sheild of faith, Divine favor, Obscuring mist, Command [B] Domains are Travel and Luck, gets to re-roll 1/day a save, attack roll, etc... and freedom of movement 1/day [/B] Cohort: [B] THE DEMIURGE [/B] Dwarven Druid 10 [B] Stats: [/B] str 10, dex 10 (12 -2 race), con 16 (14 +2 race), int 13, wis 21 (15 +2 levels +4 periapt), cha 8 [B] Hp: [/B] 78.5 (8 + 9d8 = 48.5+ 3x10 con) [B] AC: [/B] 16 (10 + 5 wis +1 monk) [B] Touch AC: [/B] 16 [B] Saves: [/B] +12/+7/+14 ( 7/3/7 druid then + 3 con, +2 feat + 5 wiz then +2 resistance) [B] Skills: [/B] the standard, spellcraft, concentration and so forth [B] Feats: [/B] Improved initiative (1st), Maximize spell (3rd), Lightning reflexes (6th), Craft rod (9th). 25 900 to spend [B] Gear: [/B] 88 000 total 8000 Periapt of wisdom +4 (crafted) 2000 Cloak of resistance +2 (crafted) 6500 Monk's belt (crafted) + animal companion(s) ----------------------------- 16500 GP total Extra cash for ... a metamagic rod of maximize! So give it to the Urge. [B] Spells per day: [/B] Divine: 1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th 4/4/4/3/2 2/2/1/1/1 from wis 22 6/6/5/4/3 [B] Typical spell selection: DCs are (16+ spell level) [/B] [i] Divine: [/i] 5th: Baleful polymorph, Control winds, Animal growth 4th: Flamestrike, Rusting grasp, Spike stones, Giant Vermin 3rd: Call lightningx2, Poison, Wind wall, Greater magic fang 2nd: Barkskin, Delay poison x2, Heat metal, Warp wood, 1st: Pass without trace, Faerie fire, Entangle, Speak with animals, Hide from animals, Detect snares and pits. [B] ADMIT UTTER AND TOTAL DEFEAT IN THE FACE OF THE URGE AND THE DEMIURGE. [/B] :p So he brings to the party, well everything he had before - 1 quicken rod and a ring no one cared about. Oh yeah and druidic magic. Oh did I say druidic magic? I think I did. You have a small handful of 6th level spells. And nothing more. Now's the time to go back and read all my posts again. [/QUOTE]

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