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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kem" data-source="post: 2318051" data-attributes="member: 18158">Uh huh...  You picked a single level, and then are using that single level to prove your points while at many, many other levels, your example doesn't work.Because when you are casting 5th level spells, they could have 7th (one level higher) or you could only have 4th (one level lower).The dishonesty you have is that you ignore any level but 12 for the Myth.  Or for that matter, I bet you'd ignore any ODD level.Read my recent posts, you have not disproved any of it.Thats one of 3 methods.  You'll notice its the only method open to a party of pre level 12 Hybrids.  You know from level 9 to 11?  Where the cleric has been able to raise people already?  Or that teleporting to somewhere with someone ABLE to raise the dead is possible?All spellcasters have issues with Golems.  This is where the wizard buffs like haste come in handy.  Or greater invisibility.  Or Blink.  Or spells like Acid Fog that have no SR.You have the Fighter to stand toe to toe, why try to take that role when you can make him so much better at it.  And you'll never be as good at it due to HP/AC/BAB not having weapons.It is power.  But for spellcasters, specialization in spellcasting is power is more power.  The Red Wizard isn't thought to be overpowered because they get a variety of spells.Likewise, sacrificing caster levels makes you a worse spellcaster because it delays access to higher level spells.And is not having 2 6th level spells worth having 2 more 4th level spells and 3 more 3rd level spells?You cast Raise Dead, they cast Ressurection.  You cast Cure Critical, they cast Heal.  You cast Fireball, They cast Teleport.  You cast Greater Invis, they cast Contingency.  Granted on even levels its not as bad.[code]7th : 4(Wiz +1), 3(Wiz +2), 2(Myth +2), 1(Myth +3)[/code]7th is character level.4 is spell level.Wiz +1 means that the wizard has one more spell of this level then the myth.3 is 3rd level spells.Wiz +2 means the wizard has 2 more spells here then the myth.The spells the Wizard has base over the myth form a very predictable pattern.1.5 spells of of the highest the wizard can cast over you, 1 spell of the next highest the wizard can cast over you.  The myth then has 2 spells over the wizard and 3 spells over the wizard for the next 2 levels.Actually adding another 5th level spell.  So thats 2 5th level spells, and the same number of 4t6h level spells that you have.And those rods, can be used by the wizard just as well as by you.  Please stop with the items unless it can be proven to only help one or the other.And you get 2 spells per level for free.  Thats in a real game.  And thats 4 5th level spells known.  And I'll take waiting to have 6th level spells while you dilly with 4th level spells.  Then YOU get to wait to cast 5th while I am casting 6th.I'll take Teleport over Fireball.  Raise Dead over Prayer.  I'll take Wish over Limited Wish, Miracle over Ressurection.  I'll take Fireball over Scorching Ray, and Heal over Cure Critical.A Hybrid Party is versatile, but unlike 2e/1e, they don't have the output of the Normal Party.Actually that would be cleric.Hence having a party of players, and not just one.  The Myth (as has been admitted) is good for a party with no casters.Versatility is ONLY power, when that versatility doesn't wash out the abilities too much to be useful.  This is why the Bard is a poor replacement for a wizard or cleric.  They aren't good enough casting to fill either of those rolls.  They do okay replacing the rogue as long as its a social rogue.So where does that leave the Versatility of the Bard?Is a party of 4 bards somehow better then a Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard?</blockquote>

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