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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Pendragon" data-source="post: 1679258" data-attributes="member: 707">Scion has spelled out a lot of good points that I agree with.It just doesn't seem like the template is equal or far more powerful than the paladin+cohort.  On top of that, Leadership usually gets stronger as you level up.  By 20th-level, it seems obvious that a party would be better off with a 20th-level human paladin and an 18th-level cleric, than with a 20th-level half-celestial paladin.  Each level the party gains weakens the template in comparison to the cohort.Fair enough.  But the fact that 50+ people would choose the paladin+cleric over 3 people choosing the half-celestial paladin, leads me to believe that the general ENWorld consensus is that the cohort would be more powerful than what I'm suggesting.This is the crux of it.  I've been reading and re-reading the paladin spell list.  The crappy spells, combined with the horrendous caster level, means paladin spells are worthless with two exception.  Bless Weapon and Holy Sword.  Cleric spellcasting is anything but.  The 8th-level cleric could hit the paladin with Greater Magic Weapon every morning and the occasional Divine Favor, at a cleric's caster level, and more than equal the paladin's entire spellcasting ability. :/No, I'm well-aware of the bonuses granted by the half-celestial template.  The wings are nice, but our campaign is mainly a dungeon-crawl, so a place to unfurl those babies, and room to use them, is going to be hard to come by.  Also, the paladin is a melee-focused character, so just flying at range and shooting arrows isn't going to do it.  No archery feats + bad Dex = bad ranged attacks.  So the wings come down to occasional usefulness in avoiding obstacles--like walls--rather than the extreme combat power that a flying wizard might enjoy.The template grants several nice defensive bonuses, and a couple good offensive ones, but these don't seem much stronger than what an 8th-level cleric could provide.This is a very important point.  I'm not asking "is the half-celestial template worth a feat?"  I'm asking "Is the half-celestial template too much to ask instead of a cohort?"  The balance problem you are objecting to is with regards to Leadership itself, which is another topic entirely.  Here, I'm asking, in a game where Leadership is allowed, would my proposal be totally out of whack?  I tend to believe it's not.Well, from the replies in this thread and the voting, it seems fair to say this is a matter of debate.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I partially agree.  The cohort is an independent character, who gains a share of loot and xp.  However, the cohort is dedicated to the PC.  He will follow reasonable commands, he will place the PC's needs above any other party member's, he will use his abilities to assist the PC as best he can.  He's not just a hireling, he's a devoted subordinate.  Because of that, I don't think it's an assumption to say that the paladin will benefit from most of his abilities, or that he'll act in the paladin's best interests in nearly every circumstance.I don't think it's so definite.  The abilities are nice, but not overwhelming.  In any case this thread has shown me that it's close enough to balanced for me to approach my DM with the idea.  If he approves it and it gets out of hand, he can always dial it back later. I definitely agree about wanting more feats. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />  But I like Leadership.  And I love the rp-idea of a half-celestial paladin.  Even more, a paladin who is human, and being blessed with an infusion of divine energy, or as Scion mentioned, joined with a symbiotic celestial spirit.Thanks to everyone who's participating in this thread.  It's really helpful to be able to poll this community and get a general feel for how an idea would be received.</blockquote>

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