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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Pendragon" data-source="post: 1682010" data-attributes="member: 707">I agree.  Before you consider the LA, Half-Celestial is very synergetic with the paladin class, which is heavily dependent on pretty much every stat except Int and to a lesser extent, Dex.  So the bonuses, plus the flavor, attracted me to the template.  However, at a +4 LA, that means giving up 4d10 hp (so the hp gained from con are a wash,) -4 BAB (Ouch!  +4 to strength won't make up for that!) -a factor of 4 from Lay on Hands (which means the half-celestial's Lay on Hands is actually worse compared to an equivalent ECL paladin)...a weaker mount...it just isn't worth it.  +3 would be questionable, +2 a strong choice, and +1 overpowered, or it seems to me.I originally thought it was +3 (wasn't it in 3.0?) and it still seems like an underpowered choice.  You lose a lot for what you gain.  +2 may be stronger than balanced, though, so I'm not sure what to make of it.Exactly.  If I can use Leadership to gain a template, everyone can.  This is one of the reasons I decided against it.  The DM might as well hand out free levels. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Wow.  Our half-orc fighter regularly outdamages the paladin, usually by double or triple the amount of damage.  Of course, our game is a dungeon-crawl, so combat is the central focus of the game, which is of course where the fighter shines. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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