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Whiney players....
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<blockquote data-quote="Isida Kep'Tukari" data-source="post: 4034636" data-attributes="member: 4441"><p>Very true. I posted here about a problem player about a month ago, and got a ton of advice, some of which I didn't want to hear, much of which was difficult for me to implement. (It was good advice, don't get me wrong, just a lot different than I thought I'd get.) Many people suggested outright, frank discussion with the player. That is very difficult for me. I'd almost prefer to solve in-game problems in the game, by way of changing storylines or tactics or just accepting the fact that I have a much different gaming style and moving on.</p><p></p><p>Also, for many reasons, sometimes you <em>can't</em> ask a player to leave a game. Sometimes your group is the only players you're going to get. My player is the wife of another in a two couple group. I could not kick that player out without alienating the entire group and damaging the friendships I have there.</p><p></p><p>Subtlety is often preferable to outright confrontation for many people. Perhaps this won't work in some situations, but I feel it is the goal of the DM to manipulate the players in a way that they feel they are in control, but enjoy the manipulation anyway. A good DM's plot should be, in a way, invisible; everything the players do seems to affect their own actions, and they are in control of the world. Even if you, the DM, know differently.</p><p></p><p>For this whiney player, it seems, from the limited information available, that this player wants more control. Having him be the DM this time around could be the best possible outcome of the situation. Sometimes going from DM to player is hard, as you're used to knowing everything, and knowing only half the information can make you feel powerless. The OP may have been running his game in a more open manner (allowing the player to know the exact level and CR of all monsters in an encounter), which could have contributed to the feeling of frustration for the player, because he didn't know how the DM would manipulate the situation to allow the PCs to survive and/or shine.</p><p></p><p>If the OP ends up DMing again, I'd suggest a little more mystery. Keep NPC character sheets hidden; have him not reveal the true extent of his power, don't let the PCs know the specific details of his class levels and whatnot. Even if the low-level rogues <em>are</em> low-level (for example) describe them in a way to bring a sense of threat, even as the PCs mow through them. ("The shifty men in their sleek leather armor slink around the battlefield like cats circling mice. Their daggers and short swords seems puny in comparison to your fighter's longsword, but their movements make it clear they're no strangers to death. They circle and swirl, getting into position, finally beginning their dash to surround you and take you down!") Sounds more ominous than it is. The PCs might feel vindcated and lucky for beating them then.</p><p></p><p>It allows powerful villains to seem less so, giving the PCs a sense of confidence (until it's time for the villain to kick some butt) and lets less-powerful threats still seem threatening. In this case, what the PCs can't know can't hurt them. When the OP DMs again, be more vague in your specifics, and more devious in your descriptions. Keep your DMing materials behind a screen or in a folder. </p><p></p><p>And try, if at all possible, to have one thing, even a small thing, each session, for each player. It lets them know you're thinking about them. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Isida Kep'Tukari, post: 4034636, member: 4441"] Very true. I posted here about a problem player about a month ago, and got a ton of advice, some of which I didn't want to hear, much of which was difficult for me to implement. (It was good advice, don't get me wrong, just a lot different than I thought I'd get.) Many people suggested outright, frank discussion with the player. That is very difficult for me. I'd almost prefer to solve in-game problems in the game, by way of changing storylines or tactics or just accepting the fact that I have a much different gaming style and moving on. Also, for many reasons, sometimes you [i]can't[/i] ask a player to leave a game. Sometimes your group is the only players you're going to get. My player is the wife of another in a two couple group. I could not kick that player out without alienating the entire group and damaging the friendships I have there. Subtlety is often preferable to outright confrontation for many people. Perhaps this won't work in some situations, but I feel it is the goal of the DM to manipulate the players in a way that they feel they are in control, but enjoy the manipulation anyway. A good DM's plot should be, in a way, invisible; everything the players do seems to affect their own actions, and they are in control of the world. Even if you, the DM, know differently. For this whiney player, it seems, from the limited information available, that this player wants more control. Having him be the DM this time around could be the best possible outcome of the situation. Sometimes going from DM to player is hard, as you're used to knowing everything, and knowing only half the information can make you feel powerless. The OP may have been running his game in a more open manner (allowing the player to know the exact level and CR of all monsters in an encounter), which could have contributed to the feeling of frustration for the player, because he didn't know how the DM would manipulate the situation to allow the PCs to survive and/or shine. If the OP ends up DMing again, I'd suggest a little more mystery. Keep NPC character sheets hidden; have him not reveal the true extent of his power, don't let the PCs know the specific details of his class levels and whatnot. Even if the low-level rogues [i]are[/i] low-level (for example) describe them in a way to bring a sense of threat, even as the PCs mow through them. ("The shifty men in their sleek leather armor slink around the battlefield like cats circling mice. Their daggers and short swords seems puny in comparison to your fighter's longsword, but their movements make it clear they're no strangers to death. They circle and swirl, getting into position, finally beginning their dash to surround you and take you down!") Sounds more ominous than it is. The PCs might feel vindcated and lucky for beating them then. It allows powerful villains to seem less so, giving the PCs a sense of confidence (until it's time for the villain to kick some butt) and lets less-powerful threats still seem threatening. In this case, what the PCs can't know can't hurt them. When the OP DMs again, be more vague in your specifics, and more devious in your descriptions. Keep your DMing materials behind a screen or in a folder. And try, if at all possible, to have one thing, even a small thing, each session, for each player. It lets them know you're thinking about them. ;) [/QUOTE]
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