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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Slaygrim" data-source="post: 4035228" data-attributes="member: 59401">It could be.  The thing is that the leading candidate for gaming a "roll of the dice" kind of game is this player, and he is now ceasing being the player and becoming the DM.  I am hoping that with me and this new player playing our characters from a roleplaying perspective, that it will get the other players to feel comfortable opening up.The other players have been following his lead, and two of the other three I am certain will be completely fine roleplaying more.  In fact, two of the other three are completely happy with the way I DM'd and one of them threatened to leave the game because of the whiner whining so much.  He only stayed and finished the game because I asked him to.  I told him I put a lot of work into this campaign and it's the last session of it.  I asked him to stay so he did.The other player, his character failed his save against the assassin's death attack and he died.  He was an elf too, so he's not likely to come back.  How did he handle his characters death?  Perfectly.  He thought it sucked at first but quickly got over it and went to do some research for his next character.I can't imagine if that was the whiner who's character died.  It would have raised HELL.Felix, your position is starting to look like you've already made up your mind and are determined to put me down.  Be careful you don't digress from someone who's just trying to be a third party offering their advice.I said I am resisting the urge.  I definitely will not do it, but I was merely admitting the idea does give me a sense of justice.  But I won't.  Enough said about that.I wasn't upset about a character taking things a different direction.  I was upset with a player throwing up his hands in frustration and practically quitting.  It ruined the entire mood of the game.  If he would have acted calmly and played his character rather than throw a tantrum then things would have progressed just fine.  And not just from the adventure standing point, but for the group as a whole.There was no way out of the dungeon once they entered it.  They knew this.  Throwing a fit and talking about leaving when the only way out is on the other side of the enemies isn't playing your character, it's acting like a baby.This is a Straw Man Argument.  I did not once say that the only way to roleplay is to roleplay brave.  His character is supposed to be brave.  He's always played him brave.  It was nothing more than a player allowing his short temper to influence the game.Another Straw Man, I did not suggest that the DM will not kill a character, but that the player himself should trust me that I am not going to put him in a situation of certain death.  The ONLY way through the dungeon was through this battle.  If he had any sense of calm about him and would have just finished the game, there wouldn't have been an issue at all.  The other players (other than the whiney players friend-who follows his lead) were completely FINE.  You don't seem to be offering a third party view on this anymore.  You seem determined to find fault in me.  I am trying to explain what happened.  You seem to be trying to explain my fault, with the wrong idea of what happened.  ANY DM worth a damn isn't going to throw the PC's in a situation of certain death for no reason.  THAT is what he should trust.  His PC not going into the fight was not him playing his PC, it was him over reacting as usual to any sort of challenge.My brother, who games with us as well, said it best.  He told the whiny player, "Geez man, I bet on your way over here today you were like, 'Man... I HOPE there isn't any challenging encounters today...' "  And I had to laugh because that's how he is EVERY battle that is a challenge.  He throws a fit, says they are all going to die, says it's too tough, or something to that effect.  He'll even challenge me in front of everyone saying I shouldn't have done this encounter.  Every time.  Maybe you need him to play with your group for a time.I don't.  Not for balking.  I got aggravated that the whiny player made a big stink, brought everyone down, and threatened to end the adventure by walking away, knowing full well that he COULDN'T walk away since there was one way out.  He didn't even wait to give the STORY a chance.That is what HE reacted to.  The others were fine.Like I said, this particular scene was important to future events and required a high level opponent.  It made them more equal to the challenge.  The other players were confident enough to keep playing the game without threatening to walk off.  Let me make this clear.  There were two dungeons in this campaign.  The first one had two Iron Golems.  He complained about them then.  A big fit, complaining about how I DM because I used Iron Golems.  This was a challenge in front of the group and it makes me feel like I am not doing my job right, especially when I was the only one willing to DM and I put a lot of work into trying to make this fun.The second dungeon was the Netherese one, and this one had more Iron Golems, just like I said.  However I also said two other things.  1.  I went back and changed a lot of the IG's over to Helmed Horrors.  2.  I also said that the 19th Level Wizard ALSO fought through the dungeon and he faced a lot of those IG's and HH's, clearing many of them out for when the PC's followed him in.</blockquote>

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