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<blockquote data-quote="Slaygrim" data-source="post: 4035304" data-attributes="member: 59401">I didn't say they KNEW they would lose, I just said they KNEW they were in for a fight.Keep in mind the PC's didn't know the &quot;levels&quot; of their opponent's.&nbsp; The whiny player plays the &quot;guessing game&quot; on ALL of the NPC's and then reacts accordingly.&nbsp; That's an issue.&nbsp; Secondly, the PC's, while 10th level, were the equivalent of at least 12th level characters.&nbsp; They all rolled very high stats, they had exceptionally good equipment, etc.&nbsp; Also, like I said, once the NPC joined them, they won the battle against the beholder, the 16th level sorcerer, and the runic guardian in 2 friggin rounds.&nbsp; They wiped the floor with them.&nbsp; The 16th level guy did get off a Horrid Wilting spell before the NPC iced him with a prismatic spray, but that was it.&nbsp; One of the PC's is a monstrous fighter wielding a two handled ax and hits for 25-40 damage a pop, swinging 3 times a round on a full attack while hasted.&nbsp; The whiny player hasted the party.&nbsp; That fighter axed the beholder in a single round.The point is, that these are extremely competent characters AND players.&nbsp; This battle was NOT beyond them.&nbsp; If the whining ceased the second the NPC joined them, that would be one thing, but the whining player continued.&nbsp; And then he continued again for the final battle with the 19th level wizard... who I may add had just battled through a dungeon and participated in a draining ritual to make it a fair encounter.&nbsp; He fled the battle actually rather than fight the PC's + that NPC.&nbsp; This all leads to the epic adventure I have planned for the future.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Slaygrim, post: 4035304, member: 59401"] I didn't say they KNEW they would lose, I just said they KNEW they were in for a fight. Keep in mind the PC's didn't know the "levels" of their opponent's. The whiny player plays the "guessing game" on ALL of the NPC's and then reacts accordingly. That's an issue. Secondly, the PC's, while 10th level, were the equivalent of at least 12th level characters. They all rolled very high stats, they had exceptionally good equipment, etc. Also, like I said, once the NPC joined them, they won the battle against the beholder, the 16th level sorcerer, and the runic guardian in 2 friggin rounds. They wiped the floor with them. The 16th level guy did get off a Horrid Wilting spell before the NPC iced him with a prismatic spray, but that was it. One of the PC's is a monstrous fighter wielding a two handled ax and hits for 25-40 damage a pop, swinging 3 times a round on a full attack while hasted. The whiny player hasted the party. That fighter axed the beholder in a single round. The point is, that these are extremely competent characters AND players. This battle was NOT beyond them. If the whining ceased the second the NPC joined them, that would be one thing, but the whining player continued. And then he continued again for the final battle with the 19th level wizard... who I may add had just battled through a dungeon and participated in a draining ritual to make it a fair encounter. He fled the battle actually rather than fight the PC's + that NPC. This all leads to the epic adventure I have planned for the future. [/QUOTE]

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