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Whirling Blade with Arcane Strike
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6498279" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>And that is precisely my point. If a player can go nova like that it vastly reduces the design space available to the DM, leading to a more limited campaign with lower diversity of challenge and too many cakewalks. The only way to challenge a player is to lure out a nova and then follow up with even more. And if you are really following the sense of the campaign's world framework, that isn't always remotely logical. You're letting imbalance impinge up on your world's framework.</p><p></p><p>If you aren't metagaming against the player, of course there will be plenty of opportunities in many cases to flee, evade, hide, find refuge, rest and so forth. I don't have an idea what you mean by 'player requests'. If the player declares they are camping in the wilderness, whether or not a monster shows up later has more to do with the rate monsters are found in your wilderness (logically) wandering about looking for heavily armed humanoid prey, than it has to do with whether the PC's went nova earlier in the day or whether the DM wants to punish the PC for using up most of his daily resources.</p><p></p><p>Proactive villains are great! But not every villain out there is going to be proactive and have lots of allies ready at hand precisely because we will be using the logic that makes sense in the campaigns framework. Even villains that are proactive won't necessarily have the means to find the PC's or penetrate their havens at all times. What you are saying is, "I'm fine with the game being a cake walk in every situation that the campaign's world framework provides for a gap in time between encounters." That's going to be a huge chunk of them. </p><p></p><p>And beyond that, it doesn't even really matter. Because nothing requires the character go nova in situations where it doesn't make sense to do so. What the feat would give at a very low cost is the option to go nova in situations when it does make sense to do so. Using Arcane Strike to go nova is far cheaper than using Quickened Spell and involves sacrificing far less value. </p><p></p><p>If on the other hand, all Arcane Strikes is the opportunity to sacrifice a utility spell for a relatively low value attack spell that is tied to making attack rolls, then all we are getting is a certain limited sort of versatility. It's useful, but it would not be game breaking nor would it impose any metagame requirements on the design of setting you used.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6498279, member: 4937"] And that is precisely my point. If a player can go nova like that it vastly reduces the design space available to the DM, leading to a more limited campaign with lower diversity of challenge and too many cakewalks. The only way to challenge a player is to lure out a nova and then follow up with even more. And if you are really following the sense of the campaign's world framework, that isn't always remotely logical. You're letting imbalance impinge up on your world's framework. If you aren't metagaming against the player, of course there will be plenty of opportunities in many cases to flee, evade, hide, find refuge, rest and so forth. I don't have an idea what you mean by 'player requests'. If the player declares they are camping in the wilderness, whether or not a monster shows up later has more to do with the rate monsters are found in your wilderness (logically) wandering about looking for heavily armed humanoid prey, than it has to do with whether the PC's went nova earlier in the day or whether the DM wants to punish the PC for using up most of his daily resources. Proactive villains are great! But not every villain out there is going to be proactive and have lots of allies ready at hand precisely because we will be using the logic that makes sense in the campaigns framework. Even villains that are proactive won't necessarily have the means to find the PC's or penetrate their havens at all times. What you are saying is, "I'm fine with the game being a cake walk in every situation that the campaign's world framework provides for a gap in time between encounters." That's going to be a huge chunk of them. And beyond that, it doesn't even really matter. Because nothing requires the character go nova in situations where it doesn't make sense to do so. What the feat would give at a very low cost is the option to go nova in situations when it does make sense to do so. Using Arcane Strike to go nova is far cheaper than using Quickened Spell and involves sacrificing far less value. If on the other hand, all Arcane Strikes is the opportunity to sacrifice a utility spell for a relatively low value attack spell that is tied to making attack rolls, then all we are getting is a certain limited sort of versatility. It's useful, but it would not be game breaking nor would it impose any metagame requirements on the design of setting you used. [/QUOTE]
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