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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tgwg" data-source="post: 5072780" data-attributes="member: 83331">well in this case it's not so certain. the main discrestion is that does whirling rend count as 2 damage rolls or 1. if it where 1 damage roll you're right the enhancement bonuses wouldn't stack, but if it's 2 then you would apply the enhancement bonus (among other things) on both of them.  except for the fact that 1 hit with whirling rend counts as 2 "hits" with twin strike.  that and the fact that +attack to next attack roll is much more common than +attack to all attac rolls and you're now in a bind.  if we look at it statistically with 15 being a hit then whirling rend  75% to do full damage25% do no damage so 75% damage average twin strike56.25% do full damage37.5% do half damage6.25% do no damage so again 75% damage average. hm i guess you're right, they do average out, if they were using the same damage output, but if you look at the chart i made in the Giantitp forum you'll see that the barbarian while in rage is about equals to the ranger in total damage.  It outstrips the ranger if whirling rend has 2 damage rolls. and even if the damage output is equal don't forget that the tempust barbarian has more HP and AC then the two weapon ranger.  so if the barbararians damage output equals the rangers, has beter defense then the ranger and fufills the same roll as the ranger (striker) then tempust barbarian >>> Two weapon ranger.  this would make the tempust barbarian a gamebreaker to the 4e standards of balance.   If whirling rend counts as 1 damage roll it would be more balanced because it would only achieve ranger level damage while raging.  that is true, and i'm having a hard time trying to figure out how that comes into the equation.  not as much as you think.  While it is true that the ranger has another chance at criting it averages out that the ranger would crit 5.25 % more than the barbarian, if crits only happen at natural 20. and then there's the whole deal that if whirling rend does count as 2 damage rolls then a magic item critical damage would apply to both the main weapon target and off hand weapon target.</blockquote>

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