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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tgwg" data-source="post: 5072901" data-attributes="member: 83331">i suppose you're right. the way you put it it seems that even with the "two rolls" rule they're both equal in damage with respect to their circumstances. but there is one other matter to discuss. their respective defenses. the defensive differences between these two classes come from their base class and their primary and secondary attributes. The tempest barbarians attributes are STR and DEX; the two weapon ranger's attributes are STR and WIS.  actualy a tempest barbarian would do better with 18 in str and 18 in dex (half-orc). the reason why is that dex contributes to AC and REF.  if you compare the two weapon ranger's defenses to the barbarian's defenses... the results are less then favorable.  Barbarian (half orc)STR 18CON 10DEX 18INT 8WIS 11CHA 13 Ranger (longtooth shifter)STR 18CON 13DEX 13INT 8WIS 18CHA 10 while the barbarian's and rangers STR will be the same the barbarian has that +2 to FORT and the ranger has only +1 to FORT.  in terms of AC and REF the ranger is at even more of a disadvantage since his DEX is less important than his WIS the ranger will be forced to either split points between the two or focus on just 1. in this version the ranger has decide to ignore REF and AC which will (for the entirety of his carreer) trail behind the barbarian's AC and REF.  P.S. see below for when the ranger focuses on DEX the only defense that the ranger has that is beter then the barbarians is WILL but since that came at the cost of 2 defenses (one of which is AC, the most common defence that is targeted in the game and is of extreme importance to melee characters) it is not a good tradeoff. case where ranger focuses on dex Ranger (half orc)STR 18CON 13DEX 18INT 8WIS 13CHA 10 AC and REF; if the ranger instead focuses on Dex his AC will still be below the Barbarian's because of the barbarian Agility. His reflex will be equal to the barbarian's during heroic teir because the ranger has a natural +1 bonus to reflex, but will fall behind because barbarian agility increases at each teir. so (strangely enough) the barbarian has beter defense then a ranger in almost every case. In the HP department the ranger has hp then the barbarian because the barbarian starts with 15+con score and gains 6 hp every level while the ranger starts with 12+con score and gains 5 hp every level. the barbarian could start with an 8 in con and still be able to take more damage than a ranger for the majority of their career.  so if the two rolls rule were adopted the barbarian would do about as much damage as the ranger (while not raging) but would have much beter defenses and hp. if the one roll rule were adopted then the barbarian would do less damage than the ranger (and equal while under a rage) but would have much beter defenses and hp. arbitrarily the one roll rule seems beter but you did make a good point about the power blackbrrd.  there is no way i can argue with that.</blockquote>

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