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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
White Raven Onslaught Revision
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<blockquote data-quote="Lizard" data-source="post: 4163776" data-attributes="member: 1054"><p>It also mandates the game be simplified...or, worse, that is be exposed to Gross Munchkinry because the designers didn't look for combos outside their carefully delineated boxes. ("Hey guys...if someone take Purple Monkey Overpass and combines it with Laughing Hippo Umbrella, they can kill anything in the game." "But...but...why would someone pick abilities from two *different* builds?")</p><p></p><p>By "rules mastery", I do not mean "Find the secret hidden sucky rules". I mean the idea that the rules are a set of cool lego blocks, and you get to assemble them as you wish...not just in accordance with someone else's idea of how they should fit together. From what I've seen of 4e, the emphasis on making sure you can't suck has led to a situation where you also can't excel, or even stand out as different or unique. (Still waitin' on them thar multiclassin' rules...)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, and in 3x, you had major steps that way with things like monster types (Remember when 'Charm Person' in 1e had to explicitly list each monster which was a 'person'), spell schools and categories (Constructs are immune to mind-affecting spells) and so on. So, prithee, tell me why 'tactical', 'combat maneuver', 'ally-affecting', or some other setting-neutral, flavor neutral, tag would not be preferable to 'white raven'? It would be superior in many ways, not the least of which would be not saddling a character with a name that might not fit their world/background/style. (And we get back to the problem with 'just change the name' -- if I decide some maneuvers of the White Raven School are actually taught by the Generals Of the Grand Academy, and some are known as 'Skirmishers Secrets', then when WOTC publishes "+1 to all White Raven moves", I have to go and remind players which moves they have that this now applies to (especially if those schools in my universe apply to moves outside the White Raven list) -- and god help anyone who *liked* the idea of the 'white raven school' and applied the name to other manuevers he thought fit the theme!) ("Hey, my character has 'White Raven Lindy Hop', does he get +1 with it?" "No, because it used to just be Lindy Hop, so it doesn't count.")</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lizard, post: 4163776, member: 1054"] It also mandates the game be simplified...or, worse, that is be exposed to Gross Munchkinry because the designers didn't look for combos outside their carefully delineated boxes. ("Hey guys...if someone take Purple Monkey Overpass and combines it with Laughing Hippo Umbrella, they can kill anything in the game." "But...but...why would someone pick abilities from two *different* builds?") By "rules mastery", I do not mean "Find the secret hidden sucky rules". I mean the idea that the rules are a set of cool lego blocks, and you get to assemble them as you wish...not just in accordance with someone else's idea of how they should fit together. From what I've seen of 4e, the emphasis on making sure you can't suck has led to a situation where you also can't excel, or even stand out as different or unique. (Still waitin' on them thar multiclassin' rules...) Sure, and in 3x, you had major steps that way with things like monster types (Remember when 'Charm Person' in 1e had to explicitly list each monster which was a 'person'), spell schools and categories (Constructs are immune to mind-affecting spells) and so on. So, prithee, tell me why 'tactical', 'combat maneuver', 'ally-affecting', or some other setting-neutral, flavor neutral, tag would not be preferable to 'white raven'? It would be superior in many ways, not the least of which would be not saddling a character with a name that might not fit their world/background/style. (And we get back to the problem with 'just change the name' -- if I decide some maneuvers of the White Raven School are actually taught by the Generals Of the Grand Academy, and some are known as 'Skirmishers Secrets', then when WOTC publishes "+1 to all White Raven moves", I have to go and remind players which moves they have that this now applies to (especially if those schools in my universe apply to moves outside the White Raven list) -- and god help anyone who *liked* the idea of the 'white raven school' and applied the name to other manuevers he thought fit the theme!) ("Hey, my character has 'White Raven Lindy Hop', does he get +1 with it?" "No, because it used to just be Lindy Hop, so it doesn't count.") [/QUOTE]
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