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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4164714" data-attributes="member: 22779">A further thought occurs.I would like to thank Lizard for so eloquently illustrating my point.  In his mind, it's perfectly acceptable for the non-world builders like me to be forced to either, A) build a world from scratch or B) spend money on additional supplements so I can make the core rules work out of the box.But, it is, in no way, acceptable for the rules to work out of the box since that requires that world builders might have to do more work to create their hothouse flowers.B/E D&D had a world right in the rules.  Star Frontiers had a setting right in the rules.  World of Darkness has a setting hardwired into the rules.  1e had a world hard wired into the rules.  The list goes on and on.It wasn't until 2e and all the world building geeks took over the helm that we became forced to do work that frankly, some of us would rather not do.I find it ironic that Lizard would point to Greyhawk, a setting which was absolutely the default for D&D right in the core books, as an example of why I should be forced to go out and buy setting guides.</blockquote>